S2R 800 clutch dampener spring failure

[insydney]

note the broken (and missing) spring top left


I have an 05 s2r800 with 13k on it and sadly i am possibly facing the all too common failure of the drive dampener associated with the aptc slipper clutch.
my clutch is really behaving badly, considerable backlash on throttling back, and juddering on take-off, so i'm about to pull mine apart and inspect it for loose locknut and spring health ...

anticipating the worst I am led to believe that a clutch from a M696 (as will one from a 750) will fit the s2r.     The benefit with these is there is no drive dampener to fall apart, ie no springs to break apart and threaten your whole engine. which has to be a good thing

I think i have managed to find a 696 outer basket,

there are however a couple of things i need to confirm;
1. do i need any special pullers to remove my outer clutch basket ? (after locknut is removed)
2. will my s2r inner basket, plates etc fit this outer 696 basket with no adjustments, shimming etc needed ?

cheers

[cobrajet]

Mine is also apart right now thinking that was my issue too. On my 06 800S2R the washer holding the three springs on the primary drive gear failed. I have a complete 695 clutch if your interested but if you want to continue to use the twin gear drive primary gear set-up it's too tall for the 695 clutch. I was told I could eliminate that but because my clutch spring hub is still good I was going to stick with the stock set-up if possible. I am probably going to try and repair my failed washer if nothing else comes up.

[koko64]

note the broken (and missing) spring top left

Another great idea badly executed.
Seems there are three things that can go wrong. The cush drive springs in the clutch primary ring gear or the anti lash springs/washer in the primary gear can fail, or the nut retaining your clutch can loosen.

[insydney]

@cobra...    aagh i hadn't even been aware of these 3 springs you talk of  
as i said i haven't yet pulled mine apart, just trying to understand the problem so i know what to exxpect and what to get ready to sort it out, btw did you need any pullers to get your basket and primary gear off ?

i'm not sure if the 695 is similar but i'd hazard a guess it could be. ducati in their infinite wisdom kept installing these for yrs even though a great number have shit themselves !!

i'm opting for the 696 basket as it doesnt have the 'drive dampening' set up, and i am led to believe my clutch drums and plates will fit straight in... i really don't fancy a replacement OEM blowing and destroying my engine or gearbox plus the very real possibility of wiping me out on the road if the engine/wheel locks up   !!

@koko    it seem insane and tempting fate that they haven't fixed this and still stuck it in way more powerful bikes than the s2r. sure it's a nice idea but hey it has the capacity to kill    

[koko64]

Had a customers MTS1100 come in and 3 of the six clutch cush drive springs were loose in their cavities, so opposite to the issue where they are so tight they fail under compression (or so it appears). They make a racket.
The Good Fellas of the DMF were excellent to consult regarding that issue. 

[insydney]

i was of the understanding that when in drive (ie the clutch lever released) the springs are under compression, and they are only not un-compressed when the clutch is in use ie the clutch plates are free to spin independently.     the springs absorb the initial shock as the drive engages, and remain compressed  whilst in drive.

these sprngs obviously work very hard and any flaw in the way they are contained has an eventual effect on their life. either that or some failure in their compressive strength. 
perhaps if they had protective cups on the spring ends the raw metal to metal action where they are contained would be minimised.
as can be seen from images of failed units both the springs and the containing basket fail. but it's not clear which fails first

what we do know is when they do let go it cab be expensive due to the great damage loose parts can do internally and o course potentially dangerous...

[koko64]

Yep. It's a problem. Probably not many cases, but when the result can be catastrophic for an engine's health I don't blame people for being concerned about it.

[cobrajet]

Insyd, the 695 clutch does not have the cushion either. The three little springs I spoke of are in the gear on the crank under the big washer. If you don't have a thin gear between the washer and the primary drive gear you are probably in luck and the 695/696 clutch hub will fit fine. Nogo on my 06 800 without disabling the thin gear.

[insydney]

ha ha i just commented on your thread i literally just found,
ok i shall have to check out the m'fiche again i detail to find these 3 springs, just something more to worry about   lol

i'm hoping to use a 696 basket (with it's primary gear) which will arrive in a few wks from the UK and then  can fling this oem slipper grenade far away !

 guess you're not back on the road yet?

[cobrajet]

From what I have heard the crank gear is the hard one to get off, but if you do change the pair you'll be noisier but fine. I'm also still finishing up my valve adjust, waiting for one more closer shim.

[insydney]

From what I have heard the crank gear is the hard one to get off,


i will have to face that bridge when i come to it.   did you use a puller ?


 I'm also still finishing up my valve adjust, waiting for one more closer shim.

thats next on my list, currently awaiting a micrometer and closer measuring tool from fleabay...

[insydney]

ok my 696 basket has just arrived from the UK (i'm in australia btw)
so now the moment is approaching for me to rip it apart...

however i have one (well probably several) Q that is pretty important:

1. when i install the 696 outer basket, in place of the OEM APTC one, does it need any shimming or do both baskets have the same overall dimensions?

2. does the clutch activating push rod need some form of adjustment due to a change in dimension of any resulting movement of the inner basket ?

[MV]

Hey mate, answered in the other thread for you, http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=70124.0

Cheers, Mick.

[OwnyTony]

Does anyone know/remember if the springs were a more brass color than the grey color shown?

[stopintime]

Does anyone know/remember if the springs were a more brass color than the grey color shown?

Mine were that grey color.