M1100/Evo Showa/Marzocchi Forks

[koko64]

Got a lead on some M1100 forks. Are they Showa on that model and rated better than the Marzocchi forks on the Evo1100? Are they a straight swap and is the valving and oem spring weight a better platform than the fancier looking Evo forks?.

[Moronic]

Hi Tony, yes they are Showa. Not that flash and have the progressive springs I suspect. A friend has an 1100 and I wouldn't be rushing into a swap (although I've not tried the EVO version).

Main advantage I think is that replacement cartridges are much more widely available and easier and cheaper to fit.

We measured laden sag on the Showas with stock springs and with a rider who I would guess about 90 kg geared up it was nearly half the travel. Winding up the adjusters didn't help a great deal.

Don't know whether they would be a straight swap and question would be whether you'd be as well off spending more for new cartridges in what you have - assuming you can get some.

Others likely will chime in with more direct experience.

[koko64]

Hey Ian, I lost your number in my dead phone! PM me mate. Hope you're doing well in our lock down.  Thanks for the info. I can report that the Marzocchi forks in the Evo actually respond to both damping and preload adjustments, so that's something in their favour.

[ducpainter]

The stock Showa valve is pretty poor on the street bike forks. The holes are tiny compared to the SBK, or Race-Tech valves.

[koko64]

Thanks Nate, that settles it. Cheers.

[Moronic]

Looks like there are more options now for the 'zokes.

https://www.omniaracing.net/en/andreani-misano-evo-adjustable-hydraulic-cartridge-for-marzocchi-ducati-monster-1100-evo-2011201-p-19745.html

No idea what these are like but they're not stupidly expensive.

[koko64]

Thanks Ian.

I'm going to try oil and linear springs as the forks respond to adjustment which has made them tolerable with the wrong spring. If a used pair appeared I would work them and keep spares. I feel this will be my last Monster.
The Sachs shock otoh is both harsh and lacking control at times and my suspension guy hates them, so I'll run it by him. I might just service the forks with new springs and minor valve tuning and save for an Ohlins or other aftermarket shock.

[koko64]

I find it ominous that ebay is littered with used Evo fork internals and that Andreani and Matris kits keep showing up in every search 

I've got 8.5, 9 and 9.5 kg Gixxer springs that should fit. Seals, linear springs, a tube polish and oil would be a budget fix. I'm 200 without gear. Going quick on bumpy mountain roads is the plan.

[koko64]

To the suspension brains trust..

Servicing the forks on this Evo. I have found some 0.9kg Gixxer 43mm fork springs. If they fit ok I'm looking at trying them. I have spacers that can be cut down. I also have a single 9.5kg spring that I could use and leave the oem progressive spring in the other tube as a compromise street setting (speeddog has mentioned this option iirc).  I'm 200 in shorts, so am I in the ballpark with this bike?

[MonsterHPD]

Hello,

I think with 200 + gear, I would try the gsxr springs first, and prepare the 9.5 + spacer so you could easily drop it in if you need to.

My guess :-)

[koko64]

Thanks for your advice . Appreciated.

[Speeddog]

What MonsterHPD said! 

I used the 'one prog, one straight rate' springing for a couple reasons, only a few of which are relevant here.

The straight rate springs I had were pretty good, but I thought maybe I could get better compliance with a lower rate spring and raise the oil level to maintain bottoming resistance.
But then the trifecta: no softer linear springs on the shelf, lots of OEM progressive ones on the shelf, and at times I'm a really cheap and impatient bastard.
So one linear and one prog it was.
Worked great with a little fiddling.
It got me to where I wanted to go, but it's got some baggage.

Aggro is setting preload, depends on the topout springs.
If the topout springs are stiff enough, the forks want to be different free lengths unless they're preloaded enough to completely squash the topout springs.
So then the fork bottoms are misaligned and the axle really does not want to slide in or out.
This can lead to confusion as the axle went in/out fine before and that stuff didn't get changed.
So then hammers are being being picked up and that's often a bad approach for things that are binding.

If you're lucky the topout springs are soft and even at zero turns of preload they're squashed.

Since running into this issue more than once, along with the common 'axle now oval due to overtightened pinch bolts' syndrome, I check for a relatively free-sliding axle before I pick the wheel up and struggle to install.

I have a small pile of prog springs and it feels like a bit of a waste if they just sit there (tho I didn't manufacture these generally unsuitable parts, so I should feel no guilt).
Furthermore, there's likely some area for improvement in ride quality by optimizing the topout springs but I'm not going to fall down that rabbit hole.

[MonsterHPD]

The Ducati forks with top-out springs that I have encountered have pretty soft top-outs, so If I want to measure sag from fully and surely extended forks I do so by screwing the pre-load all the way in. As you say, that will completely squash the top-outs.

The aggro with non-parallell front axle bores .... extremely annoying. Would probably not be half as annoying, if only one had 3 hands ....

I have managed to slightly improve oval front axles by mounting them 90° (no wheel ...) and give them a good tightening. I think part reason they get oval is that they always sit in the same position on the Showas with fork-bottom adjuster. I did not measure anything, but I think it got sligtly better ....    

[ducpainter]

How much difference in free length?

[koko64]

How much difference in free length?

Haven't pulled the forks apart yet. What's the limit on the difference in spring length for it to be viable?

Will try the 0.9's first I think and see how the ride quality stacks up. The bike has great front weight bias like a true sports bike, so most of my top heavy weight is over the bars.

The one fork with progressive or dual rate spring sounds like a good street bike option for bumpy mountain road riding. I note that the forks have 130mm travel which ain't bad. My Hypers 160 odd mm of fork travel was excellent on those roads.

Appreciate all the advice guys. Thanks heaps.