Monster 1100 Evo Battery/Electrical/something else?

[Barney]

Hey everyone,

I've got a Monster 1100 EVO, 18k on the clock, that's never given me any problems like this up until this season - in fact, I've had the bike since 2013, and I honestly can't recall ever replacing the battery, although I can't imagine i got that long out of the original, so it's possible it got a new one the last time the valves were done.  I pulled the bike out of the garage and I had a feeling the battery was toast based off of the age - I plugged it into a tender, but never had any luck getting it to turn the bike over.  This was at the beginning of the COVID stuff, so instead of ordering a battery from amazon or whatever, I went to a local batteries + bulbs - they only have one battery that fits this bike, so I bought it.  Threw it on the bike and it started right up.  A few days later, I went to go for a ride and the things dead - like 10v.  I put it on a tender and was able to get it to start, but it was clear this battery was shot.

I returned it and they told me that they'd had a few people return this battery recently.  I got another one in the bike and the same thing happened - worked great for a few rides, then died on me. They tested and replaced the battery, a second time, this time from a different store altogether. So, I took the bike out for a ride after installing the 3rd battery, and it ran just fine.  I've had a few rides on this thing, and I've been keeping an eye on the battery.  Last weekend I went out for a couple hours on it, and put the bike away.  I believe it was 4 days later, I checked the voltage by turning the bike to ACC, and it was at 12.1 with the bike not running.  I threw the battery tender on it just to be safe.  That was earlier this week, and I just went to go for a ride and the thing is flat. 10.1v with the bike off and obviously won't start.  I find it hard to believe that I've got 3 bad batteries in a row, but shouldn't having the thing plugged into a tender keep it topped off even if i've got some sort of parasitic drain going on?  I don't believe the tender to be bad, as i've got two different tenders from two different brands and I've had the same thing happen with both of them - plugged the bike in, and come back to a dead battery.  When the bike is running, it shows ~14 volts.  I've never had to keep the bike on a charger during the season, and I could leave it for days up to a week or two without so much as a second thought.

I've never had to troubleshoot electrical issues before, so I'm kind of at a loss for where to start other than to get another new battery - this time of a different sort.

anyone got any tips or ideas of where I can begin looking for whatever this issue is?

Thanks!

[Howie]

Though it is possible you actually got three defective batteries from those folk you want to make sure the bike is functioning properly.  Two basic checks you should to is assure you don't have an excessive parasitic draw  and the charging system is up to snuff.  For parasitic draw you need an ammeter that reads milliamps.  Key off, ammeter in series between negative on the battery and the negative cable (any vehicle general spec, never seen one published by Ducati) you want to see less than 50 milliamps.  Reinstall negative cable, voltmeter on plus and minus on the battery.  Start bike.  At about 3k RPM you want to see between 13.5 and 14.5 amps.

[Barney]

Thanks Howie - this is exactly the first step I was looking for.  Going to pick up a multimeter right now.

How accurate are the voltage meters on the bike?  I'm right in that range when the bike is running according to the computer, and I've have a few long rides without any issues - several hours, 100+ miles, a few stops, that sort of thing doesn't seem to be any issue once the bike is running, so I don't get the feeling that there's any issues with the charging system. 

it's been a while since I've poked my head in around here - good to see some familiar names!

[Barney]

So turns out I do own a multimeter, and assuming i'm not screwing it up, I'm looking at about a .06A draw.  Does that seem like enough to kill the battery within a few days, especially when connected to a battery tender?  I'm tempted to take the battery back since i've got the thing all apart anyway.

I do have a Bazzaz fuel unit installed, and I disconnected that without any change in the reading, but other than swapping out the headlight and installing LED blinkers, I haven't made any modifications as far as electronics are concerned - and those mods are several years old.

[Howie]

As I said, Ducati has no published spec I know of so I can't be sure.  I would be concerned since you need a strong battery to start that big twin.  Every hour the bike looses .06 amps and, assuming the battery is good every 24 hours the bike sits you have lost .44 volts.  Maybe someone with a similar bike could check theirs?  Do you have a phone charger on the bike? 

Did you check the charging rate?  Did any of the stores do a proper load test on the suspect batteries? 

[Howie]

I looked up the battery you bought.  175 cold cranking amps.  The Yuasa that came in your bike is rated at 210 CCA.  BIG difference!

[Barney]

The second one to be replaced had a proper load test done, and they found a bad cell - I don't know enough about batteries to know if it's possible the bike killed it or it was DOA.  No phone charger or anything besides the pigtails on the battery terminal. 

I'm not happy with this battery regardless. I guess that's what I get for taking convenience over patience and not doing my research.  I'm not 100% convinced there isn't another issue, but I just ordered the Shorai LI battery - hopefully this will work out better.  270CCA and 18 AH capacity vs 10 on the Yuasa and the one I've got now, plus it's like 5 pounds lighter.

[koko64]

Good move on a strong battery. ive used Shorai on many carbed bikes and very happy with that brand. Those lithium batteries hate a parasitic draw and you need a special charger for them. Tecmate Lithium charger is a good one. I like Shorai but haven't tried one in an immobiliser equipped bike as yet. I have a Shorai that is at least ten years old and is retired from hi comp duties to running a low comp bike and still going strong! The other option is the Yuasa AGM battery which is an industry standard.

It's a very big bore hi comp motor for sure and you need a quality battery with big CCA. Howie is spot on (as usual).

A customer with an M1100Evo recently replaced a 4 year old Yuasa AGM battery that could have gone 7-8 years with correct maintenance. The bike sat for months without charge. He bought a cheap battery and will be replacing it in a year I reckon. My Hyper 1100Evo's Yuasa lasted 10 years as the new owner just retired the original battery. My 2013 M1100Evo is on its second battery which is 2 years old.

You cant skimp with these bikes, buy the best battery you can afford. Never skimp on tyres, battery and oil.

[koko64]

I'm guessing a bunch of bikes have dead batteries from Covid lack of use and there are a pile of new batteries on store shelves that have not been maintained.  I think an intelligent hi quality charger is important, one that gives a periodic deep charge then tops up rather than trickle only. DP once said that some trickle chargers have killed as many batteries as they've saved. I've never forgotten that statement.  Sometimes I think it's better for a battery to get a "jolly good rogering" every 3 or 4 weeks rather than a constant hand holding. Good chargers  will assess, monitor and do both when required.

[Barney]

I'm guessing a bunch of bikes have dead batteries from Covid lack of use and there are a pile of new batteries on store shelves that have not been maintained.  I think an intelligent hi quality charger is important, one that gives a periodic deep charge then tops up rather than trickle only. DP once said that some trickle chargers have killed as many batteries as they've saved. I've never forgotten that statement.  Sometimes I think it's better for a battery to get a "jolly good rogering" every 3 or 4 weeks rather than a constant hand holding. Good chargers  will assess, monitor and do both when required.

   
Thanks for the input! If you get that much life out of them, perhaps the one I replaced was original after all.  Maybe I'm better off just going with another AGM - I'm usually pretty good keeping it on a tender, and I have both a Battery Tender and an Optimate 4, so I'd prefer not to have to pick up another one, plus the Shorai battery itself was like 50 bucks more than the Yuasa.  I understand the Battery Tender is technically compatible, but Shorai recommend their specific charger.  I don't believe the Optimate is compatible with LI batteries at all, but if I'm not mistaken it's a quality tool otherwise.

[koko64]

The Optimate will monitor, diagnose, deep charge and maintain your AGM battery. I got hold of an Optimate made for lithium batteries and its better than my Shorai charger.

You definitely need a special charger for lithiums. A regular Tender could kill a lithium battery.

A buddy is going to put a Shorai in his Hyper Evo and ill be watching to see how it goes.

[koko64]

A top of the range Yuasa is a safe bet. 

[Barney]

That's what I've read as well - the battery tender is not desulfating, whatever that means, so it'll work to charge the battery, but it won't maintain it like it would an AGM - I take that to mean it shouldn't just sit on it, but can be used to top off.  The Optimate I own has an automatic desulfating feature that I guess cannot be turned off, so I would need to pick up the LI version of that - or I could just disconnect the battery when the bike is in storage, since one of the advantages of the LI battery is supposed be great shelf life holding a charge.

Any idea whether the ~60mA draw I'm seeing on my bike is out of the ordinary?  I imagine the immobilizer does draw some power, but using the calculations Howie mentioned it seems like at the rate my bike is drawing it wouldn't last more than a few days inbetween charges, and I've definitely gone significantly longer without riding or plugging in.

[koko64]

On rare occasion, a bad regulator can leach out a battery just sitting there with everything turned off. Be interesting to see if the parasitic loss stops with the reg disconnected (electrics and motor totally turned off of course). Only seen it twice, but lets see what your multimeter says. Normally a reg dies jammed shut starving the battery or jams open cooking it, but twice only I've dealt with regs "trickle discharging" while the bike sits overnight. Howie knows the details on this process, he probably alerted me to it being possible.

[Barney]

interesting.  I found a post regarding the regulator and stator on the other monster forum - same bike, a 2012 Evo - the dude said he saw a voltage drop of .1-2 volts ~24 hours after riding the bike, and that's where it should stop, and that this was normal. This seems to line up with my draw as well, since I believe the computer fires up as soon as the battery is connected. That's about where the similarities between my potential issues and his stop though - he wound up with a bad stator that died mid-ride, and my bike runs and drives just fine, with voltages in line with what he was looking at for a running bike (at least according to the computer - I'll definitely be doing some more testing with the multimeter once I get my hands on a better battery, although the computer does seem more or less in line with my multimeter on this battery)

I last rode it last Saturday - put about 100 miles on the thing without a single hiccup, and I checked the voltage when I put the bike away - it was at 12.3V according to the dash.  As I said in the initial post, on Tuesday or Wednesday, I checked again and it was at 12.1 volts, so that's consistent with what this dude was saying, and I plugged the Battery Tender in and haven't touched it until today when I went to start it, and it was at 10.1v. It would be interesting to see if I could hook the multimeter up in series long enough for the thing to fully turn off, but I'm not sure how to do that off the top of my head.  I also wonder what would've happened if I'd kept it off of the tender?

I'm not convinced there's not something wrong with the thing, but I'm also not convinced this battery isn't just another piece of garbage, or that it's just not sufficient for the bike at all. I found it by searching the batteries plus website, and I wouldn't be surprised if they only thing they're going by is the physical dimensions.

as always, I appreciate all the help! I've said it before and i'll definitely say it again - this is the single best forum i've found not just for Ducatis or even motorcycles in general, but of any topic on the internet.