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Author Topic: Starting (charging?) issue  (Read 4190 times)
d3vi@nt
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« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2020, 05:39:58 PM »

I finally got all the parts, a good crimping tool, and some time.

I cut off both connectors, crimped on new terminals and new connectors. Still the same; idles right at 13V and never goes above ~13.6, regardless of RPM.

Any other thoughts or suggestions?  Time for a new R/R or could it possibly be something else?

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koko64
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« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2020, 05:58:33 PM »

13.6 is on the low side of good for an AGM battery, but 14 would be better, because the voltage take up of a battery is not 100% effecient. That effeciency drops as the battery is in decline.  If you pull the headlamp fuse what does the meter read? Correcting bad connections and parasitic losses could give you that 0.5V that tips the balance. Recheck all the usual culprits that corrode like case to cable and frame to cable contacts, tarnished cable lugs, battery terminals, etc to find that 0.5ish Volts. With your voltmeter, did you find a voltage difference between the battery - terminal reading and the frame or engine readings? I've lost track Smiley

There are probably more generous Regulators available if you can't find the "leak".
« Last Edit: August 24, 2020, 06:20:53 PM by koko64 » Logged

2015 Scrambler 800
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d3vi@nt
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« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2020, 06:15:20 PM »

With your voltmeter, did you find a voltage difference between the battery - terminal reading and the frame or engine readings?
I'm not sure what you mean, can you please clarify?

Electrical is not my strong suit --I'm mostly fumbling about with guidance from multiple forums, youtube, etc.

Thanks!
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koko64
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« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2020, 06:35:31 PM »

Sorry mate, Sensei Howie would have described it better Grin

Put the positive prong of the meter to the positive of the battery and the neg prong to battery negative and note the voltage.
Then put the negative prong to the motor and note the voltage.
Then the neg prong to a frame bolt that cuts past frame paint and note the voltage.
Look for a voltage drop or barrier to a good earth. It can tell you a lot. Rusty bolts  lugs  etc that connect a neg earth lead to the frame or motor can block some of the voltage available.
There's a bolt to the motor near the case breather that could connect the earth pathway between motor and frame, and cable or cables from battery earth to frame. Howie will talk you through it or provide a link to a guide. We're looking for voltage barriers or "leaks" that stop all the available energy getting to the battery from the charging system. I'm using layman's terms to give you a mental picture of how bad connections prevent full flow of power from the alternator (via the regulator and cables) getting to the battery. Imagine its water.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2020, 06:37:16 PM by koko64 » Logged

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« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2020, 06:50:48 PM »

Remember that paint is an earth barrier so motor case bolts and frame bolts that cut through paint into metal are best for testing with the negative prong.

With the voltmeter connected to the battery say for example you saw 13.5 volts, but only 13 volts when the negative prong is on the motor case, you would know that the earth cable lug to the motor case may need a good scrub or fresh bolt, cleaned case threads, etc. If only it were that easy.

So keep the positive prong on the positive battery terminal and move the negative prong to various negative earth points to see if the voltage drops. You might see zero volts at places of thick insulating paint. You can do this with the motor off at first to get a good idea.

Others more proficient in the art of electrickery will explain other more involved procedures.
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« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2020, 07:45:06 PM »

Howie has, for quite a while linked to a video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=132&v=_B0LjwQbUbg&feature=emb_logo  Much easier than doing all that typing.  Yes, it is for a car but it works for bikes too.  The drop could be on either positive or negative.  No drop you might consider a new regulator or keep your revs up at stops when a major consumer like high beam or heated clothing.
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« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2020, 08:00:02 PM »

Hai Sensei  waytogo
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« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2020, 11:37:22 AM »

A picture paints a thousand words, a video even more.
Let us know how you go.
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d3vi@nt
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« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2020, 05:57:48 PM »

Thanks again, gents. I appreciate all the great info.

Time has been in short supply, but I should be able to poke around some more in the next few days.

 chug
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d3vi@nt
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« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2020, 03:27:18 PM »

Let us know how you go.
With engine off, on at idle, or at 3.5k RPM, there is no drop in voltage touching various ground points including the at the back of the case where the ground wire is connected.

I also pulled the headlamp fuse to test. Of course it went flying and ended up in the plastics somewhere, so had unbutton the rest of the works to find it  bang head.  But fortunately located it. No lights at all brought it from ~13.6 at idle to ~13.7. No change at higher RPM's. I'm guessing this expected and not indicative of a loss?

So grounds appear to check out. The stator at ~70VAC seems to check out.

The other connector between the RR and the battery, on the RR side has 2 green wires and 2 red-white wires. On the battery side, 2 black and 2 red. I get 0 ohms between battery negative and each black wire and 0 ohms between battery positive and each red wire. If I'm actually doing it correctly, I understand that means I have continuity at least from that connector to the battery.

I'm not sure how, or even if it's meaningful to test the wires from the RR to the connecter. It's a short run and both sides of the connector look clean

I also did a 'bench test' using this video:

All the diodes checked out.

I'm not sure what or how exactly to test anything else at this point.

Thanks again for the help, much appreciated.
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d3vi@nt
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« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2020, 03:52:36 PM »

Howie has, for quite a while linked to a video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=132&v=_B0LjwQbUbg&feature=emb_logo  Much easier than doing all that typing.  Yes, it is for a car but it works for bikes too.  The drop could be on either positive or negative.  No drop you might consider a new regulator or keep your revs up at stops when a major consumer like high beam or heated clothing.
I'm not quite sure how to attach to the circuit without disconnecting wires, which would break the circuit.
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« Reply #26 on: August 30, 2020, 08:09:45 PM »

Which connectors are you talking about?  Also, which bike?

Unfortunately, except for the testing you did, there is really no conclusive test on a regulator except replacing it with a known good one.
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d3vi@nt
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« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2020, 01:47:21 PM »

Which connectors are you talking about?  Also, which bike?

Unfortunately, except for the testing you did, there is really no conclusive test on a regulator except replacing it with a known good one.
It's '99 ST2.  The video you linked had a post on the alternator he connected to, then to the battery terminal with the other probe.  On the bike, there is no exposed post or wire on the alternator to connect the probe. So I'm not sure how to effectively test voltage drop.

We've established I'm getting proper juice to the RR. We've also established I'm not getting enough juice from the RR to the battery. I've also established (correctly, I think) that I have continuity in the last part of the run from the RR to battery.

I don't know if there's anything else I can effectively test, of if the above is sufficient to establish that the RR is at fault.

I didn't figure out a way to test the short run from the RR to the plug that then connects to the battery. I suspect that's not a likely culprit, though.
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