Ducati Monster Forum

powered by:

April 26, 2024, 07:02:07 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: No Registration with MSN emails
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  



Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Master cylinder piston size for Brembo P34/4 calipers  (Read 1517 times)
DucHead
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3288


No garage queens


« on: February 02, 2019, 03:37:19 AM »

Greetings!

I have a set of Brembo P34-4 piston calipers (pic below) that I believe were standard for the 748/996/998 series bikes.  Does anyone know what the best master cylinder is for these calipers?  In particular, what is the best master cylinder piston bore size?  17mm?  19mm?

Thanks,
  Dave

Logged

'05 S4R (>47k mi); '04 Bandit 1200 (>92k mi; sold); '02 Bandit 1200 (>11k mi); '97 Bandit 1200 (2k mi); '13 FJR1300 (1k mi); IBA #28454 "45"
ducpainter
The Often Hated
Flounder-Administrator
Post Whore
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 78262


DILLIGAF


« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2019, 03:48:47 AM »

I have those on my SBK and they work great with a standard Gold Line master, which I believe is 16mm. Maybe something different would be better...dunno.

Logged

"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent.”


stopintime
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8929


S2R 800 '07


« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2019, 03:55:38 AM »

Those are "999" calipers. Nice, (but) with a healthy initial bite because of the four pad leading edges.

What are those brackets?

When I changed from 16mm coffin to radial master from a StreetFighter 1098 (19mm, I think...) I was very surprised that it was such a minor change. YMMV.
Logged

237,000 km/sixteen years - loving it
DucHead
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3288


No garage queens


« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2019, 04:05:24 AM »

Wow, thanks for the speedy replies!   waytogo

Lars - the adapters are for a new Bandit project.   Tongue    I've used radial masters with axial brakes and I too was surprised at the improvement.

1216 pistons, Web 236 intake cam:




'88 GSX-R750 fairing and chopped up RGV-250 tail (no worries, it was aftermarket!).


R1 swingarm brace welded onto an RF-900 swingarm.  M-Unit equipped...
« Last Edit: February 02, 2019, 04:10:25 AM by DucHead » Logged

'05 S4R (>47k mi); '04 Bandit 1200 (>92k mi; sold); '02 Bandit 1200 (>11k mi); '97 Bandit 1200 (2k mi); '13 FJR1300 (1k mi); IBA #28454 "45"
ducpainter
The Often Hated
Flounder-Administrator
Post Whore
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 78262


DILLIGAF


« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2019, 04:30:42 AM »

I don't find the initial bite all that aggressive on the 4 pads with HH+ pads, compared to the really aggressive bite with race pads and 2 pad calipers.

That's just me.

Logged

"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent.”


DucHead
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3288


No garage queens


« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2019, 04:50:01 AM »

Thanks Nate, that's helpful.  I will take this bike to VIR, but I ride in the beginners group and most of its duty will be street and I don't want too much initial bite.
Logged

'05 S4R (>47k mi); '04 Bandit 1200 (>92k mi; sold); '02 Bandit 1200 (>11k mi); '97 Bandit 1200 (2k mi); '13 FJR1300 (1k mi); IBA #28454 "45"
Speeddog
West Valley Flatlander
Flounder-Administrator
Post Whore
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 14813


RIP Nicky


« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2019, 07:23:19 AM »

I've got those calipers with Ferodo CP1 pads, 16mm goldline master, and BrakeTech iron rotors.

They're stellar!  waytogo
Logged

- - - - - Valley Desmo Service - - - - -
Reseda, CA

(951) 640-8908


~~~ "We've rearranged the deck chairs, refilled the champagne glasses, and the band sounds great. This is fine." - Alberto Puig ~~~
DucHead
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3288


No garage queens


« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2019, 09:03:19 AM »

I've got those calipers with Ferodo CP1 pads, 16mm goldline master, and BrakeTech iron rotors.

They're stellar!  waytogo

Awesome, thanks!!
Logged

'05 S4R (>47k mi); '04 Bandit 1200 (>92k mi; sold); '02 Bandit 1200 (>11k mi); '97 Bandit 1200 (2k mi); '13 FJR1300 (1k mi); IBA #28454 "45"
Speeddog
West Valley Flatlander
Flounder-Administrator
Post Whore
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 14813


RIP Nicky


« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2019, 11:00:41 AM »

Radial masters have different leverage ratios than goldlines/small pivot, which have different leverage than coffins/big pivot.

I'd wondered about why a 16mm coffin felt squishier than a 16mm goldline, examining the drawings showed the coffins have more leverage on the piston.

Brembo muddied the waters of that trend with the radials, which have even more leverage, but with generally larger pistons.

Drawings representing each style:

Radial:
https://www.oppracing.com/images/cmsuploads/Brembo/OEM_Schematics/oppracing%2010-8210-10%20brembo.pdf

Small pivot:
https://www.oppracing.com/images/cmsuploads/Brembo/OEM_Schematics/oppracing%2010-6870-18%20brembo.pdf

Big pivot:
https://www.oppracing.com/images/cmsuploads/Brembo/OEM_Schematics/oppracing%2010-5053-16%20brembo.pdf



If we take the distance from the pivot to their approximate "index finger position", divided by the distance from the pivot to the piston bore axis:

[18/19] Radial - 98/19 = 5.16

Small pivot - 77/24 = 3.21

Big pivot - 75/22 = 3.41


Then divide those numbers by piston area, we get:

[18/19] Radial = 0.0203

Small pivot = 0.0160

Big pivot = 0.0170

Bigger numbers mean more net leverage.


Further muddying the water is (my suspicion!) differences in piston seal/bleed hole arrangements.
The coffins seem to require the most lever travel to 'harden up', small pivots are better, and radials better yet again.

Additionally, Brembo has produced a bewildering array of radial configurations; [17/18], [18/19], [19/16], [16/18], [19/20] etc, etc.
Just those 5 have net leverage numbers ranging from 0.0173 to 0.0271.
IMO, they could have had a logical and clear family of piston/leverage combinations, rather than the seemingly random combinations they have.
Perhaps I've just not been able to break their code...
Yet again, Italy has decided to not contact me for help  laughingdp.

I'm going to try to make a bit of sense of their selection.


« Last Edit: February 02, 2019, 01:15:14 PM by Speeddog » Logged

- - - - - Valley Desmo Service - - - - -
Reseda, CA

(951) 640-8908


~~~ "We've rearranged the deck chairs, refilled the champagne glasses, and the band sounds great. This is fine." - Alberto Puig ~~~
ducpainter
The Often Hated
Flounder-Administrator
Post Whore
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 78262


DILLIGAF


« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2019, 11:13:05 AM »

The math...already so far...has my head hurting. Wink How do large pivot Goldlines fit in?

I'll stay with my antique equipment. This dinosaur is familiar with it.
Logged

"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent.”


stopintime
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8929


S2R 800 '07


« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2019, 11:51:32 AM »

Two links to the small pivot?
Logged

237,000 km/sixteen years - loving it
Speeddog
West Valley Flatlander
Flounder-Administrator
Post Whore
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 14813


RIP Nicky


« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2019, 01:18:24 PM »

Two links to the small pivot?

Of course!  Tongue

Post corrected, thanks!

The math...already so far...has my head hurting. Wink How do large pivot Goldlines fit in?

I'll stay with my antique equipment. This dinosaur is familiar with it.

From  the data I've collected so far, the big pivot masters are all the same geometry on lever/pivot distances.
So gold, black, coffin all the same.
It is Italian hardware, so they likely have some masters that don't fit that summary....
Logged

- - - - - Valley Desmo Service - - - - -
Reseda, CA

(951) 640-8908


~~~ "We've rearranged the deck chairs, refilled the champagne glasses, and the band sounds great. This is fine." - Alberto Puig ~~~
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Simple Audio Video Embedder
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
SimplePortal 2.1.1