High Idle after DP ECU (S2R1000)

[sheepgotoheaven]

Thanks guys. Gonna give this a go.

[sheepgotoheaven]

Gave DarkMonster620's advice ago.
I got some diag cables from Lonelec and couldnt get them to work with JPDiag. Got it to work with Guzzidiag and did a TPS reset and watched some of the engine status while warming up the bike.

I adjusted the air bleeds like you said, counting the original turns and then counting the turns from full closed to get to ~1200 RPM.

Got the bike idling right, though when I gave the bike some throttle after it was fully warm, >180, It would hang at ~3200RPM until I killed the engine.

When I start the bike back up it would idle at 1200 but the second I gave it throttle it would go back to hanging at 3k RPM. GuzziDiag shows the "Idle stepper controller"  value at 100 most of the time but would occasionally go down to 80.

When the idle hangs the idle stepper value doesnt change at all. The RPM and other values do update.

Im thinking the stepper motor is going. I would like to try testing the stepper but im not looking to buy a whole kit from techno research. Guzzi Diag has a "stepper motor" action but Im not sure what its doing and the engine has to be on to use it. Tune ECU also has a stepper motor test and im thinking I might try that next, but its looking like I need to buy another stepper motor.

Any one got one lying around? lol. Going to the Parts wanted soon but I still need to take out the airbox and triple check all the hoses with the box off. With the box on i checked all the hoses with a flashlight and my fingers and all seemed good.

Might as well buy new hoses if I have to get another stepper motor, any one know where to buy the right gauge/type of hose?

Thanks again for the ongoing support. Ill let you all know if I get to a solution.

[DarkMonster620]

By reading your last status, stepper is gone . . . and worst, is not sending correct info to ECU

Use whatever diagnostics sodtware you like, I recomme ded one that I have used on many bikes and has constant updates and freat twch aupport

[greenmonster]

No FHE, but from what l've read about MTS 1100,
the stepper is mechanical.
So, guys have gotten proper function via lubing it w f e WD40.

[sheepgotoheaven]

More fun stuff this weekend.

I spend about 6 hours swapping out the stepper motor off of a lightly used set of throttle bodies. Was way cheaper than trying to drop $900 on a stepper. I know its not new but im trying the cheaper route before throwing this thing back to my ducati dealer.


After everything was hooked back up and ran to warm the bike would idle at ~1.3k RPM but would struggle a little initially to stay alive. After the bike was completely warm ~180 deg, and gave it a bit a throttle and it would continue to hang idle at 3k rpm.

Some times it would hang for a few seconds and then slowly go back down to 1.3k rpm, but as the bike got warmer and warmer it would just stick at 3k rpm and would not go back down unless I killed the engine. Once again If i start the bike back up it idles at 1.3 but any throttle i give it makes it hang at 3k again.


Now im stumped.

Just to check again, I pulled the stepper hoses off and capped the intake to the throttle bodies just to see and the bike would hang at 3k.
It didnt hang at all when I gave it throttle but it also would not idle and stay alive. I tried backing out the airbleeds to get it to idle normally without the stepper in the loop but the bike would keep dieing no matter how many turns I backed them out.



I ran out of time to work on it but the only thing left I can think of is to adjust the Idle Fuel Trim in the diag and see if the bike will even idle at all without the stepper in the loop.

Could the Idle Fuel Trim be too lean (Or rich?) and thats why no additional amount of airbleed turns will keep the bike alive.

Also does any one know if the stepper motor closes completely or is it always a little bit open? Does it completely close off when the bike is warm? WOT? This thing is a crazy pandoras box.

[Howie]

As you turn the air bleeds out it will get leaner, eventually to lean to run.  You could use the throttle stop screw to increase idle speed without the stepper motor, but that creates problems since the stop screw setting is critical and also affects TPS.  If you choose to try this carefully and accurately count turns and reset TPS after you return the stop screw to it's original position.

[sheepgotoheaven]

Got a chance to mess with the bike more today.

As my last ditch effort before reflashing the stock map and/or taking to the dealer I decided to mess with the Air bleeds and Idle Fuel Trim (something i hadnt adjusted before).

Hooked the stepper motor back up and triple checked all the hoses and boots.
TPS reset.
Reset Autolearning - Not sure what this did but figured it wouldnt hurt.

Started warming up the bike. wouldnt stay running at all unless I let the bleeds out a little more than they were (2 full turns out from full closed)

Once the bike was warm I checked to see that the idle was still hanging at 3k and it did when blipped the throttle.

IAWDiag says my CO trim was at +27. When i got the ECU back for the 2nd time i didnt even question this setting.

set it to +30 and checked again to the same result. I had thought that i was running lean due to the hanging.

Then I set the trim to +24 just to see how the stepper would react. The bike didnt get stuck at 3k. Rather it fell back down to 1.3k rpm a little slowly but definitely a huge improvement from being stuck at 3k.

I set it at +25 to see how rich I could run it before the problem resurfaced. Went for a short ride around the block and the bike would hang at 3k if there was no load on the crank and i was fully stopped in neutral. Tried again at +24 and it revved fine in the garage.

I set it to +23 and checked how it ran and its seemed to have fixed the problem and the stepper value in the diagnostic was actually changing and not getting stuck at ~90-100. Went for quick ride around the block to make sure.

I think its been fixed though im not sure of the logic loop that got me here. Was the bike running so rich that it was forcing the stepper to pull more air?

Last thing to check is how it runs when cold. Have to find that out next week.
Also I did all this without a CO analyzer so Id like to see what % Im currently running at. Need to find some one to let me borrow one.

Thanks again for all the help so far. Ill keep you guys updated

[Speeddog]

That's really weird.
I'll have to let this one marinate for a while.

Keep us posted, for sure.

[DarkMonster620]

What he ↑↑↑ said and if you get a gas analyzer, try to set it between 3.5%~4.5% . ..  Somehow that trim value seems to be the across the range for Ducs equipped with Termis/aftermarket exhaust and open top air boxes

[sheepgotoheaven]

Hmm do you think the trim is too high? Could it be that my airbleeds are too far out?

I imagine closing the air bleeds turning down the trim some more together would result in less fuel in the AF ratio.

[DarkMonster620]

as I said on the other thread, close the screws[counting of course], then screw out 1.5 turns each . . . start bike . ..  set trim to 24 as baseand if you get the gas analyzer, wait for engine to heat up and do all your tests without touching the screws, if it doesn't hang or takes too long to come back to standard idle, 1250+-50RPM then my impression is that the stepper is not working properly . . . last time this happened to me was on a hm1100 when at dealership and sort of "fixed it" using tons of air intake cleaner

[Speeddog]

I have seen cases of low idle where winding out the air bleed will not raise the idle, because there's just not enough fuel being delivered.
Raising the trim then raises the idle.

I've seen cases of hanging idle on 1.5M ECU equipped bikes ('00 M900ie, for example) that defiantly resisted all attempts to eliminate it with mechanical adjustments.
Raising trim cured it.

Both of those cases I can understand how making it richer solves the issue.

I cannot yet understand how leaning out your bike by lowering the trim eliminates the hanging idle.

The idle air valve adds a layer of complexity to the response.

[sheepgotoheaven]

DarK: Will do the whole procedure again with a gas analyzer. I think getting to the CO analyzer will answer alot of questions (when i can finally find some to let me use theirs).

Speeddog:
Part me me thinks that the stepper has been getting stuck at full open to compensate for the rich fuel trim to keep the bike alive which results in the hanging condition when the throttle is blipped. Whenever the rpm would hang it did so at high stepper values 90-100, and the stepper value would not decrease at all even with the bike hanging for a while.

Lowering the trim also resulted in a lower stepper value at idle. When I was at +27 the stepper value at idle when not hanging was around 97-100. Im assuming 100 is full open.

When at +24 the stepper values at idle were around 57-66 at idle. The stepper would fluctuate lower when i blipped the throttle (system senses more air from the butterflys and closes the stepper I think) and never got stuck at any value.

Now that the stepper doesnt "top out/bottom out" at a specific range it can actually compensate for fluctuations.

Im no expert at all but this is how imagine its happening, as the ECU is "supposed" to use all methods to keep the bike idling (Idle stepper, fuel injection, ignition timing, etc.)

Need more time to fiddle with it really.

Thanks to both of you for taking the time in your day to help me out with this. Learning alot more about this bike.

[DarkMonster620]

No problem,

most days I am home all day . .. 

[sheepgotoheaven]

Just to follow up and not leave people with the same problem hanging.

Bike has been running good for the most part. I found that lowering the fuel trim to 20 essentially got rid of the bike idling high.
Still havent found anyone with a CO meter to let me use and but the plugs look like they are a good color and i havent had any high reving issues. I do get a few pops here and there on decel when the bike hasnt warmed up to 190.

Hope this helps someone.

Thanks again for all the advice.
Now the question is when do I sell her for a Aprilia Tuono RR or an S1000R?
Maybe next year.