Hard anodizing (mis)information?

[Rudemouthsky]

Wondering if anyone in the actual know can chime in on the potential and limitations. Ever since I got my forged wheels plus a box of extra parts beautifully done for a paltry sum I now know that much of what is said is plain false. The direct quote from Carrozzeria when I asked if they "hard" anodized was;

"No is not hard anodized. Hard anodized cost 4 times higher and take 4 times longer. Also can not choose color (Gray /Clear only)"

That's all BS. My anodizer described the process as being considerably LESS harsh than a bright dip as well...and the rap I'd always heard was; "don't try this at home kids, unless you wanna kill yer family!"

Anywho my wheels are a deep, lustrious black with a perfect amount of shine. And the finish is practically bullet proof, no marks whatsoever even after having tires mounted and being hamfisted by me. On the contrary the bright dip stuff can be scratched down to bare aluminum with a finger nail and turns purple when you look at it cross eyed.

I'm also curious now to see how a cast part turns out from hard ano. The common word is that cast parts don't take to anodizing at all, yet Brembo calipers and masters are obviously anodized as opposed to painted. Maybe I'll take apart my spare calipers and bring them to my anodizer, see if I can debunk that tale as well.

[koko64]

Be good to know because I don't

[ungeheuer]

Melbourne Anodising do great hard anodising Tony.  Inexpensive, great work, deep satin black (no hint of blue, still looking good)..  all from a 3rd world shack in Springvale 

Doesn't scratch if you look at it the wrong way.

I highly recommend 

[koko64]

Cheers Steve. Thanks.

[Rudemouthsky]

Scoober would probably like to know about this as well! Although I'm not sure whereabouts in the huge continent of AU he's located.

[koko64]

  all from a 3rd world shack in Springvale 

 

[Yogi]

All here http://www.anodizing.org/Reference/reference_guide.html

[koko64]

Cool. I filed that away.
Cheers.

[Scoober1103]

Scoober would probably like to know about this as well! Although I'm not sure whereabouts in the huge continent of AU he's located.

I'm up north while Ung and Koko are in Mexico......and I don't have a passport! 

I plan on dropping into the anodizer I found locally with a gazillion questions and a handful of parts. As I was saying I am interested on how the chicken wings would turn out (yes yes I know I'm like the only one to chose to keep them but for the meantime they suite my daughters height) either as is or with some major smoothing and polishing.

[Speeddog]

Different alloys end up with different finishes even if processed together.

Duller or brighter, different shades of black.

Castings can get an uneven finish, dull here, brighter there.
Kinda mangy looking.
Consistent surface finish will help.

[Slide Panda]

http://www.anodizing.org/Reference/reference_guide.html

Carrozzeria is not wrong. Type III (Hard) Class 1 and Class 2 are what they are talking about

Type II is where you get to color it any way you want

Type III can be darkened with dye, but you're basically always looking at shades of grey-black.

[Rudemouthsky]

http://www.anodizing.org/Reference/reference_guide.html

Carrozzeria is not wrong. Type III (Hard) Class 1 and Class 2 are what they are talking about

Type II is where you get to color it any way you want

Type III can be darkened with dye, but you're basically always looking at shades of grey-black.

Mil-A-8625 Type III Class 1 and 2 is the only service my anodizer offers...and this is about as black as it gets;



They described it as a process far more complicated than a bright dip which would increase the cost x4, take far longer, and give me clear or gray as the only options. I don't see how they could be any more wrong since everything they said wasn't true.

The technical paper you linked doesn't seem to be conclusive as far as color goes.

I am certainly not an expert, I just have my limited personal experience. Carroz.'s comments irked me because I sensed they were a form of BS, something companies often do because "they're the experts", the customer doesn't know any better, and they simply don't want to be bothered with something. Obviously anyone can turn up technical sheets about any given subject on Google but the point of the thread was to test/debunk/confirm their logic, and give someone who might happen to have first hand knowledge of this process a chance to break it down for us.

[Slide Panda]

The technical paper you linked doesn't seem to be conclusive as far as color goes.

Since the color shouldn't impact the physical properties pf the coating a tech paper like that doesn't give an F.

And the dyes used can be all over the place, so jsut way too many variable for sensible conclusions - Look at Rizoma and cyclecat. Both made black parts - my rizoma made stuff is still black or a very dark grey, but the dye used by cyclecats anodizer suffers badly from fade when exposed to sunlight and turns purple or nearly back to silver in the worst cases

One can do class II at home with stuff you get at home depot and RIT fabric dye. - Hell I think suzyJ actually has a post on here about some home class II ano work she did on her fork parts

Not tyring to say the answer from Carrozzeria didn't sound like a blow off - it sure did. Just noting that it wasn't just a flat out fabrication

[suzyj]

Those wheels look class II to me. I've got some old pushbike rims that are hard anodised and it's pretty obvious.

Not that there's anything at all wrong with a good class II anodising. It protects the part and looks good. Class III hard has been implicated in pushbike rims in initiating cracking in the parent metal.

Anodising isn't rocket science. If it was you wouldn't be able to do it after breathing all those caustic soda and sulphuric acid fumes. The important thing is to use good UV stable dye. The stuff Caswell sells is the ducks guts. My fork tops still look perfect after years.

Here's my experience. http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=55387.0

[Rudemouthsky]

Those wheels look class II to me. I've got some old pushbike rims that are hard anodised and it's pretty obvious.

Not that there's anything at all wrong with a good class II anodising. It protects the part and looks good. Class III hard has been implicated in pushbike rims in initiating cracking in the parent metal.

Anodising isn't rocket science. If it was you wouldn't be able to do it after breathing all those caustic soda and sulphuric acid fumes. The important thing is to use good UV stable dye. The stuff Caswell sells is the ducks guts. My fork tops still look perfect after years.

Here's my experience. http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=55387.0

I've seen this before but never read it completely. Thank you! I used drain cleaner to get the red anodize off of my pressure plate, and it made a mess of the black "smut" and didn't work very well. I'm going to try this to re-anodize it.

If my wheels are not "hard" anodized then they sure as hell fooled me...it is a HARD finish.