S4Rs starting issue with new battery

[axle167]

I've noticed starting issue at the season start and thought it was the battery. 

After replacing the battery, there is an improvement, but there is still a hesitation when starting and I only pressed the start button once.

I thought I'll take a video and see if anyone have the same issue.  Any thoughts?

[SpikeC]

 The first thing that I would do is clean all of the ground connections, and the connections in the starter circuit.

[Howie]

Yep, most likely cause is a bad connection.  Best way to find out is by checking voltage drop in the starter control circuit.  To save me a lot of typing:
http://www.aa1car.com/library/voltage_drop_testing.htm   It is for cars, but it will work for bikes.  Careful if you need to undo the connection at the starter.

[axle167]

Yep, most likely cause is a bad connection.  Best way to find out is by checking voltage drop in the starter control circuit.  To save me a lot of typing:
http://www.aa1car.com/library/voltage_drop_testing.htm   It is for cars, but it will work for bikes.  Careful if you need to undo the connection at the starter.

Thanks for the input.

Ok, so I've sprayed connection cleaners to the circuit and done the voltage test

at the battery
The reading were 12.48 - 11.11 - 11.04 - 11.92

And at the starter
The reading were 11.57 - 10.45 - 10.10 - 10.96

Since these numbers are all over the place, I'm not sure if it's still within the acceptable 1 volt drop.

Btw, the starting issues got worst after I did the crank test.

Edit: just hooked up the batt to the charger and it says batt is at 75% and needs charging... So I'm charging it now.

[Howie]

From the videos it appears you did not measure voltage drop, though if you compare the readings at the battery and at the starter you are barely within the 1 volt range, not too good for a car, but reasonable for a bike.  Voltage drop is done by putting the meter in parallel with the connector, component or conductor.  For example, positive on the positive battery post, negative on the terminal terminal that connects to the battery.  More than .2 volts while cranking?  Bad connection, clean.  Drop over the complete wire?  Positive on the terminal that connects to the battery, negative on the terminal that connects to the solenoid.  Drop of the solenoid?  Positive on the big lug on the battery side of the solenoid, negative on the starter side.  OK, that one is a PITA.  Positive on the positive battery terminal, negative on the lug on the starter.  Now you have tested that whole circuit..  Over .5 volts?  Narrow it down with pin point testing.   Positive on starter housing (clean, bare metal needed, the screw head you used is good) , negative on negative side of the battery.  Too high, pin point test.  Get mixed up and use the wrong leads on the meter?  No biggie, just ignore the negative.

Hope this helps.  Also, if you are still stuck, and have a good local shop  bringing the bike there is worth considering. 

[axle167]

From the videos it appears you did not measure voltage drop, though if you compare the readings at the battery and at the starter you are barely within the 1 volt range, not too good for a car, but reasonable for a bike.  Voltage drop is done by putting the meter in parallel with the connector, component or conductor.  For example, positive on the positive battery post, negative on the terminal terminal that connects to the battery.  More than .2 volts while cranking?  Bad connection, clean.  Drop over the complete wire?  Positive on the terminal that connects to the battery, negative on the terminal that connects to the solenoid.  Drop of the solenoid?  Positive on the big lug on the battery side of the solenoid, negative on the starter side.  OK, that one is a PITA.  Positive on the positive battery terminal, negative on the lug on the starter.  Now you have tested that whole circuit..  Over .5 volts?  Narrow it down with pin point testing.   Positive on starter housing (clean, bare metal needed, the screw head you used is good) , negative on negative side of the battery.  Too high, pin point test.  Get mixed up and use the wrong leads on the meter?  No biggie, just ignore the negative.

Hope this helps.  Also, if you are still stuck, and have a good local shop  bringing the bike there is worth considering.  

Ok, I guess what I did was only checking the available power to the starter and compared with available power at the battery under load.  That's step A - G under Checking the starter circuit in aa1car link.

Now when I try to do step D under voltage drop test on positive side which reads:

D. Connect meter positive (+) lead to positive (+) battery post, and the meter negative (-) lead to the battery terminal stud on the starter. While cranking the engine, record the voltage reading.

I get no reading from it under load.

Not sure if I'm doing something wrong here.

[Howie]

No reading under load is good!

[Bill in OKC]

The cable that connects to the starter motor gets dirty, possibly corroded.  It is 'tricky' loosening the nut there, you need a *thin* wrench to hold the terminal in place while turning the nut because it can do some serious internal damage to the starter if the terminal begins to turn.  I found a selection of wrenches at Steve's wholesale tools that looked like they came with circular saws or something - maybe to tighten the blade - don't know but they were thin and I bought one that worked great for holding the starter terminal.  If you end up cleaning that connection be careful.

[axle167]

No reading under load is good!

I guess the positive side is OK.

When I tried to do the voltage drop from the negative side:

I also didn't get any reading under load, but my problem still persist.  Any thoughts on what am I doing wrong???

Thank you for everyone's input so far!

[Howie]

That looks OK too.  Listening to the engine crank over the internet, at least to my ear, is difficult, but to me it doesn't sound so bad.  Tune up issue maybe?

[axle167]

Actually it cranks good when ever the fuel pump is unhooked.

The starter only has the hesitation now and then when I try to start it and it shows with a drop of voltage down to the 9's.

I'm thinking if it's because my daily commute is quite short 10 miles each way. Would the battery get properly charged?
 

[Howie]

Charge the battery and have it load tested.  I should have suggested that on my first reply.  New doesn't always mean good, that's why batteries come with warranties.  Also, what did battery did you purchase for your bike?

As far as your battery properly charging on your daily commute the answer is maybe.  If you are spending a lot of time in traffic not moving it could be an issue, otherwise you should be fine, unless your charging system is not functioning properly.  After you confirm your battery is good check the charging rate.   With your meter across the battery you should read 13.5 to 14.5 volts at 3000 RPM.

[axle167]

Sorry for the late reply, I was away for a while.

Anyway, I had the battery load tested today and it shows the battery is good at 318 CCA.

As for the charging, the meter reads 13.1 at idle and 13.6 at 3k and 13.8 at 5k.

Still not sure what the problem is... Just wondering what tune up issues may show as the starting issues I'm having?

[axle167]

UPDATE:

I was worried about other mechanical issues that would present themselves as the hard start problem I was having.

Although, I was clueless after all the testing I did with my voltmeter, but miraculously my hard start problem has started to go away beginning in September.

I haven't changed anything on the bike nor did I do any adjustments after the last time it had a hard start back in August.

The only difference I could think of is lower ambient temperature and humidity.  Just wondering if higher temperature (mid to high 20C) and humidity would cause the problem I had?  If so, is there anything I need to look at??  Or maybe I'm just trying to chase a gremlin....

Any input would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks in advance!