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Author Topic: OFFICIAL: Closed Loop ECU mods  (Read 156370 times)
CDawg
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« on: May 07, 2008, 05:42:50 AM »

The interest to fine tune one's ECU (post-exhaust and/or airbox mod) is extremely high and there are numerous posts.

I'd like to use this post to pull together all the different options and current product developments and provide a unified thread of making closed looped ECU bikes run better. I will add likes to other threads as I have time. Please feel free to post links on this topic that I've missed. Also please post errors and such and I will append this post from time to time to keep it fresh.

Thanks!

Common perceptions (feel free to add or critique if you disagree):
  • Ducati's come lean from the manufacturer to pass emissions.
  • Upgrading to aftermarket Slip-on's do not require ECU mod.
  • Upgrading to aftermarket full-exhausts might not require ECU mod depending on new exhaust flow rate. For example, Exbox doesn't require ECU mods, but others' may
  • Upgrading to aftermarket full-exhausts and airbox mods require ECU mod to rich the AF mixture
  • No idea if just modifying the airbox requires ECU mod

Current (and near-production) ECU mods

Ducati Performance ECU - Designed specifically for the Termi system, but works reasonable well for other systems. The part number is either "96517706B" or "96517906B". Some dealers will not sell only the chip (without the exhaust and airfilter). Price is in the $1000-$1300 range. Product is not 'tunable', other than the trim. Mechanics for this product widely available.
http://www.motospecialties.com/PartOrder.asp?Store=DucatiOmaha

PowerCommander III - There are several options people have taken.  If you want to run stock ECU, Dynojet now lists a PCIII for a 2008 S4R (which is odd...as there are no S4R in 2008) module which does not tune below 5250 RPM and below 19% throttle unless you also have the DP ECU.  If you have the DP ECU, you would load a different canned map.  A third option is to use the stock ECU, but disconnect the O2 sensor and use the PC III for designed for a 1000ie or a 06 S4R (part number 717-411)  which has full range of adjustments.  You wil need to pay for a custom map and the "check engine" light will stay on constantly. Dynotuners are widely available.
http://www.powercommander.com/powercommander_iii_usb/powercommander_all_downloads.aspx?mk=5&mdl=193&yr=2008

FatDuc O2 Manipulator - Aftermarket plug-n-play that sits between the O2 sensor and the ECU.  It has a dial that allows the user to modify the reading that the O2 sensor is sending back to the ECU.  This causes the ECU to think it is running lean thereby adding more fuel. The effect should only be felt during the closed loop part of the ECU map.  Most people seems to be happy with the results; haven't heard any negative stories yet.  http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=16051.0
The cost is only $80.  May occasionally cause the check engine light to come on when you first start the bike.  FatDuc is aware of the issue.  This is caused by the idle being set too rich and over idling (30~40 minutes) resulting in carbon build up in the O2 probe.  Proposed cure includes not idling too long or WOT it once in a while to clean the probe.
http://www.fatduc.com/

Competition Systems' Nemesis - Aftermarket replacement ECU for the 749/999/1098/S4RS/Hypermotard. Allows you to switch instrument cluster and adjust just about everything the ECU controls. Here's the pdf http://www.mmcompsys.com/download_zone/4_fuel_parts/Nemesis%202%20installation%20notes_01.pdf
http://www.mmcompsys.com/motorsportsengine.html

Microtec - Aftermarket replacement ECU for several Ducati models.
http://www.microtec.cc/cms/en/motorsport-products/engine-management/m197-ecu

UltiMap59 - Product is full ECU replacement and will eliminate the need for an O2 sensor while not triggering the "Check Engine" light. Generation 2 product does not work with stepper motor to smooth out engine while idling. Generation 3 product runs with the stepper motor.  Website is due to be updated with new info on Gen 3.  One major upshot is the ability to use any aftermarket speedo/tach display and the disabling of the immobilizer. Dynotuners for this product limited in US.
http://www.ultimap-ecu.com/

Reflashing stock ECU to DP ECU - Several services offering reflashing of all Ducati stock ECU's to DP ECU specs including, but not limited to Monstermash, Desmo Porsche, etc... It includes immobilizer disable, O2 sensor disable and raises the rev limit (at customer's request). The cost of the reflash is approximately $450.00. Some ongoing happenings in this thread:
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=34252.0
Members have had recent success with reflashing via Mota-Lab: http://www.mota-lab.com/

ProTune ECU Remap Kit - Allows reprograming of the Magneti Marelli 5AM and previous 59M units, which are used on all post 1987 Ducati models with 9 stages of tuning available (including reverting to OEM map).  Product introduced March'09...need user input!
http://www.motowheels.com

RapidBike 3 - RapidBike is having distributor drama.  Please read link below or 2nd post on page 5 of this thread before buying http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=7590.0
Mixed results. Some people love it. Other people says the support is bad and it fried their ECU or won't hold a map in memory. Latest from RapidBike is that their piggyback unit used in conjunction with the O2 eliminator works very well. However, the O2 eliminator only works with their system.
Note: Rapid Bike redesigned the O2 eliminator this winter for 2007-2008 bikes. New O2 module now shipping and is able to add or subtract fuel across the board by twisting the plug to new settings.  The instruction is poorly written with conflicting info and customer service from the main importer is spotty.  Does NOT work with the stepper motor for cold starts.
http://rapidbike.dimsport.com/indexrapid.php?DS=89295c90113848a097a28593b0a7aa0d&lang=en

Techlusion TFI Fuel Injection Module - Suppose to work for all Ducati modes by adding fuel across the board in 3 RPM zones. Need user feedback.
http://www.dobeckperformance.com/default.asp

FactoryPro' Teka Box - Product is in development. Have already been fitted to 3 bikes with good feedback. Currently only available out of FactoryPro's shop in N.California (you lucks dogs!), but may be able to ship product in 6 month to shops that use their Dyno systems. The box eliminates the O2 sensor while maintaining the stepper motor. Dynotuners for this product limited in US.
http://www.factorypro.com/index.htm

Jefferies MyECU - Aftermarket replacement ECU from Australia. Website suggests it is a new company with 1 employee. Website has customer testimonials, but no before&after dynomaps. Need user feedback. Does not work with Monsters after 2003, which has a newer two connector ECU. Good write-up here: http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=13043.0;topicseen
http://jefferies-au.org/MyECU/index.htm

Let me know if I missed any or am wrong about anything!
« Last Edit: November 21, 2011, 02:10:20 PM by CDawg » Logged
Cider
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« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2008, 08:54:50 AM »

If anybody is bored enough, they could look at the off-the-shelf maps from PowerCommander to get an idea of the mixture changes made for stock, stock + pipes, and stock + pipes + airbox.
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CDawg
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« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2008, 12:15:05 PM »

New Dynojet info from C_Rex posted in original thread.
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DucNrun
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« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2008, 04:06:45 PM »

Does anybody have any first hand experience with the Remus Fuelerizer?  That might be an interesting, low-cost option.
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TCK!
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Oh really?


« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2008, 04:23:27 PM »

Any way to get the power commander to disable the Immobilizer?
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« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2008, 08:37:01 PM »

Any way to get the power commander to disable the Immobilizer?

nope
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« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2008, 11:09:53 PM »

FYI -- Will be trying production quality BoomTubes on a S4Rs in a few weeks with Rapidbike and O2-stuff via dyno.  I'll report results then.

Q I posted on the DML but not much feedback.  We (or should I saw our engine tuner) used to tweak the O2-sensor on Nissan's by wiring resisters in parallel  (or was it in series?) with the O2-sensor to fool the computer in what it was reading. Same problem as with the Ducati ECU "closed loop" problem now. Didn't know if anyone has played with this on the Ducati to change the range of what the O2-sensor actually reads? 

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AndrewNS
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« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2008, 03:04:25 AM »

Another crude "trick" might be to play with the air temp sensor - make it read a bit colder than actual all the time and I think you would get an overall trim adjustment to compensate.
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TCK!
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Oh really?


« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2008, 07:41:44 AM »

nope
Didn't think so,  Cry
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LUKE
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« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2008, 02:11:37 PM »

There is a hand few of shops that have been able to make the PC3 work with the S4RS/S4RT models without a DP ECU.  Several of us have taken advantage of the special knowledge on this subject from TJ at Corse Superbikes in Milwaukee.  He is not the only tuner in the country but he's pretty good. 

My limited understanding is that once the PC3 is installed it "fights" with the O2 sensor, constantly trying to make opposite adjustments.  Typically if you remove the O2 sensor the light comes on and the ECU reverts to the "default" fuel map and renders the PC3 worthless. 

What TJ and a few others are doing is removing the O2 sensor and replacing it with a resistor.  He then wires up a PC3 designed for a 1000ie or a 06 S4R.  This allows the ECU to think all is well with the O2 sensor and not make adjustments while the PC3 does what it does.  Now I may be a little crude in my understanding of what he does but I gave him $650 and he have me a working PC3 with a custom map that makes the bike run OH SO SEXY. 
If any of you are in the Midwest it is worth your time to look him up.  Grazi is the one who fist had it done and may understand the process better than I.

Good luck
Luke
« Last Edit: May 09, 2008, 02:19:31 PM by LUKE » Logged

dlowenst
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« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2008, 02:23:59 PM »

There is a hand few of shops that have been able to make the PC3 work with the S4RS/S4RT models without a DP ECU.

Thanks for this info.  I'd be very interested in hearing whether anyone has first-hand knowledge as to whether this same strategy has also been successful with the S2R1K.

Dave
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Monstermash
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« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2008, 02:24:31 PM »

There is a hand few of shops that have been able to make the PC3 work with the S4RS/S4RT models without a DP ECU.  Several of us have taken advantage of the special knowledge on this subject from TJ at Corse Superbikes in Milwaukee.  He is not the only tuner in the country but he's pretty good. 

My limited understanding is that once the PC3 is installed it "fights" with the O2 sensor, constantly trying to make opposite adjustments.  Typically if you remove the O2 sensor the light comes on and the ECU reverts to the "default" fuel map and renders the PC3 worthless. 

What TJ and a few others are doing is removing the O2 sensor and replacing it with a resistor.  This allows the ECU to think all is well with the O2 sensor and not make adjustments while the PC3 does what it does.  Now I may be a little crude in my understanding of what he does but I gave him $600 and he have me a working PC3 with a custom map that makes the bike run OH SO SEXY. 
If any of you are in the Midwest it is worth your time to look him up.  Grazi is the one who fist had it done and may understand the process better than I.

Good luck
Luke


 I'm not so sure it's quite that simple. If it was I think DynoJet would have a solution by now, no?

 Also I think your interpretation of why the PCIII doesn't work when the O2 in disconnected is a bit off. If the ECU did just reverted to a default map then it would be easy for the PCIII to change the fueling.

 At that point, all we would have to do is unplug the O2, disconnect the battery to reset the ECU and install a PCIII and have it dyno tuned and the problem would be solved.

 Just an FYI, I received an email from Dusty at DynoJet a few weeks ago and they have suspended all R&D on the PCIII's for the S2R1K's.  Angry Which kind of pisses me off because if another company (Dimsport/Rapid Bike) can figure it out why can't they? DynoJet has also claimed that the O2 emulator Dimsport is using is a ripoff of their model for Aprilia's. Hmmmmmm......... Make me wonder.......
« Last Edit: May 09, 2008, 03:53:50 PM by Monstermash » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2008, 03:24:44 PM »

Hmmm, I was going to go up to TJ but after this talk, I'm not sure.  A resistor would do nothing in the place of a narrow band o2 sensor as the signal is sent to the ECU as a voltage pulse, rather than a variable resistance...  Still, I might try.  I'd take a functioning tuning system, however crudely done, over what I have now.
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LUKE
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« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2008, 04:28:46 PM »

Perhaps you guys are correct on my misunderstanding of exactly how TJ make the PC3 work.  He didn’t exactly consult with me about how it should be done. Wink  However these results along with my fist had experience of the fact that the bike runs great should fix any concerns.  You should contact Corse Superbikes about any questions 262-284-2725.  You'll find that they may be the best Ducati service dealer in the Midwest.

Sorry that the HP line is pretty light and hard to read but the "MaxHP" line should settle any debate.  Open airbox and full Arrows without baffles and it doesn't pop a bit.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2008, 04:32:59 PM by LUKE » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2008, 12:46:16 PM »

Even Dynojet's supposedly soon to be released new PC3 for the S*R will not play well with the first 25% throttle on a stock ECU.  The DP ECU however will allegedly run/map beautimussly from 0-WoT.   
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