What do you think about this?

[lillo]

I disagree you?  link:    http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

[sofadriver]

linkey brokey

[cyberswine]

It's a persuasive argument seen here and there.... I believe the break in of a new vehicle is much more than just seating pistons.  Lots of moving parts have to learn to play nicely with each other, brakes, tires have to adjust and commence the wearing process.  I just kind of choose the middle ground and ride them without undue stress.  Seems to work.

[lillo]

It's a persuasive argument seen here and there.... I believe the break in of a new vehicle is much more than just seating pistons.  Lots of moving parts have to learn to play nicely with each other, brakes, tires have to adjust and commence the wearing process.  I just kind of choose the middle ground and ride them without undue stress.  Seems to work.

I am doing the same

[FrankenDuc]

Confused, what part of his break-in procedure do you disagree with?  Is it the "hard on the throttle" instead of "slow and easy"?

Personally, my monster is the first roadbound gasoline engine I've ever broken in, and I did so with varying/oscillating loads between closed throttle and W.O.T. maintaining the, what is it?, ridiculous low 5K RPM limit in the owner's handbook?.  Lot's of mountain roads in higher than preferred gears.  I do have to say, the engine feels very right, loose enough but not too loose, and oil consumptions has been dead right and steady over the last ~20K.

I do agree break-in (for an engine) is primarily about seating the rings, if the engine was built right the bearings should all be dead on and wear on these minimal throughout the life (if they're too tight, they'll eat themselves up, too loose and they'll beat themselves up).  Don't know about the rest, not enough experience with these engine applications...

If it's the valves, these seem to just seat slowly over the first 10K or so miles - my water cooled SBK hasn't been adjusted in 26kmi (checked yes, adjusted no) - the clearances simply stopped changing after the 12Kmi check.  Same for my air cooled monster, I adjusted it last at 12Kmi, and they haven't moved at all in the last three checks.  Knock On Wood!!! 

[muskrat]

I run it hard.  I prefer it to break under warranty. 

[MendoDave]

Derby

Can't believe nobody said it before.

[lillo]

Confused, what part of his break-in procedure do you disagree with?  Is it the "hard on the throttle" instead of "slow and easy"?

Personally, my monster is the first roadbound gasoline engine I've ever broken in, and I did so with varying/oscillating loads between closed throttle and W.O.T. maintaining the, what is it?, ridiculous low 5K RPM limit in the owner's handbook?.  Lot's of mountain roads in higher than preferred gears.  I do have to say, the engine feels very right, loose enough but not too loose, and oil consumptions has been dead right and steady over the last ~20K.

I do agree break-in (for an engine) is primarily about seating the rings, if the engine was built right the bearings should all be dead on and wear on these minimal throughout the life (if they're too tight, they'll eat themselves up, too loose and they'll beat themselves up).  Don't know about the rest, not enough experience with these engine applications...

If it's the valves, these seem to just seat slowly over the first 10K or so miles - my water cooled SBK hasn't been adjusted in 26kmi (checked yes, adjusted no) - the clearances simply stopped changing after the 12Kmi check.  Same for my air cooled monster, I adjusted it last at 12Kmi, and they haven't moved at all in the last three checks.  Knock On Wood!!! 

I meant just the general idea of riding it hard FrankenDuc. I only have 2800 mi on my monster and I treat her well- I open the throttle "hard" once and a while and never go over 7rpm or maybe a couple of times going fast in 6th. what do you mean by " and I did so with varying/oscillating loads between closed throttle and W.O.T. maintaining the"?

[PhilB]

I think his recommendations are very poor for a street engine that you intend to keep and use for a decent amount of time.  For a racebike engine that is expendable for maximum performance, and will be rebuilt as needed at frequent intervals, sure.  But not a good idea for a streetbike.

There are a bazillion threads arguing this subject, here and on every bike site known to man.

PhilB

[FrankenDuc]

I meant just the general idea of riding it hard FrankenDuc. I only have 2800 mi on my monster and I treat her well- I open the throttle "hard" once and a while and never go over 7rpm or maybe a couple of times going fast in 6th.

Too true - I'm not a Ducati engine designer, but I'd venture to guess our Duc engines are not designed to handle sustained full power output, roadbound engines generally aren't.  I'd further reckon pushing them continuously at sustained high output (that is, Wide Open Throttle at high RPM) will drastically reduce the engine life (regardless of breakin).  That being said, I cruise at 6-8Krpm on my Monster, and frequently run to redline - but then, I never expected my engine to last even as long as it already has... (Where's that "knock on wood" emoticon when you need it???)

what do you mean by " and I did so with varying/oscillating loads between closed throttle and W.O.T. maintaining the"?

Basically, during breakin I rode the throttle like idle to full-throttle to idle to full-throttle to...[you get the picture]... 

note Wide Open Throttle (WOT) is not necessarily high output. If you look at the power curve, limiting to 5K RPM (at least on an M620 like mine) produces a peak engine output of only ~30HP, about half or less of the rated power output (and thus substantially less load, heat, etc.)

Again, I'm not at all familiar with breakin for things like car and motorcycle engines where expected load/output is very dynamic, more familiar with static load applications, where an engine runs at 70%, 80%, even 100% of rated output continuously for a couple thousand hours or so between overhauls. And the widely varying throttle I used seemed at the time a little harsh and barbaric. I'm guessing the varying throttle often recommended is exactly due to the fact these engines are designed to handle dynamic loads rather than static loads, opening the throttle wide gets pressures up, but keeping it there would generate too much heat [any experts out there know???]

But, either case, the reduced output during the early stage of breakin helps keep cylinder wall temperatures down.  If the cylinder walls get too hot before the rings get a chance to start seating, a smooth glaze forms, the rings ride on the glaze, and the result is loss of lubrication, serious loss of compression, and blow-by.  Once the rings begin to seat, though, the engine output can begin to be ramped up, which helps to accelerate the seating.  The quicker the rings are seated, the less the hone on the cylinder walls gets worn down, but again, trying to avoid glazing in the valleys between the hone's spikes...

Motoman's procedure does include a ramp up, first peaking at 60%, then 80%, then 100% output.  My only question is whether each stage provides enough time to allow the ring seating - ideally I'd look at oil consumption, once the oil consumption starts to drop I'd start ramping up...

As far as breaking in hard?  Oh, I don't know... I think there's probably a useful range, and either side of the range won't work - certainly letting the engine sit at idle for two hours during breakin is not great, and jumping in full throttle at redline from first start won't work either... Kindof like trying to drill through hardened steel, if you sit there and let the bit run against the steel at low speed without any pressure it's not going to cut, just going to dull itself out, and if you run it too hard  with too much pressure it's going to heat up too much and dull out - you put some pressure on it, get it cutting, then ramp it up and cool it with cutting oil...  After all, seating the rings is a process of trying to cut the rings to conform to the columns of spikes in the cylinder walls created by the hone...

But hey, if you don't ever plan to ride it hard, why break it in hard - if it results in a little loss of compression, you're not going to tear the engine down because you're not getting peak HP, as long as enough hone is there to keep the rings oiled it'll last a good long time.  And if you do plan to run it hard, well, you're probably not counting on the engine lasting forever, so why not break it in good and hard...

Just my thoughts

[Howie]

In general, a modern engine needs less break in.  Many car owner's manuals no longer mention it.  Our Ducatis?  Maybe, depends on how exact assembly tolerances are, something most (of us don't know.  IMO, most important for any engine during break in is to constantly vary load and RPM, in other words, avoid the slab.  Hard throttle was an issue in the days of carbs due to raw fuel passing the rings.  Not a problem on FI.

[militar3rd]

+1 on riding hard under warranty, then again... i never had purchased a new bike 

[Bill in OKC]

I've heard tell that *some* manufacturers can now look at tattle-tale memory in the ecu and deny warranty work based on what the manufacturer terms 'abuse'.  -banging the rev limiter off the walls when the bike only has a few miles on it is stored in memory-  If you happen to choose this break-in method for an engine with one of the smarter ecu's and something in the engine breaks - the warranty won't fix it.  Does Ducati do this?  I don't know.

[lillo]

Well said Bill, but i believe ducatis dont have that, at least the monster do not.

[motoxmann]

a lot of modern engines in cars and bikes do not require a break-in nowadays because the manufacturers break them in properly at the factory, this ensures it is broken in properly so they worry less about warranties due to the owner NOT breaking the engine in properly and causing premature failure or less than desired performance. they also do it because maintainance during break-in is EXTREMELY critical, and most new owners do NOT maintain the engine properly during break-in. so if the manufacturer does it all before posting it for sale, they eliminate a lot of the guess work and chances of failure or "failure" due to improper break-in and/or maintainance.
often times engines are broken in now with the oil pan off, or the drain plug removed and a pump attached, and they use a ginormous volume of clean oil passing through many sets of filters, ensuring a consistent oil temp and near zero particles of anything in the oil during the break-in.

rings seat very quickly, VERY quickly, so long as the cylinders are honed properly. ring seating should actually be done within the first 50 miles just to make sure it gets done before the honing starts to wear. higher rpm at zero throttle breaks in the oil rings and lower compression ring. high throttle (high load) breaks in the top compression ring. about 5 bursts of full throttle, followed by zero throttle and NO BRAKES AND NO CLUTCH (using ONLY engine decel), with a moment of cruising between each burst for cool-down, is usually all that is needed to seat the rings. the manufacturers usually do this before installing the engine. if you have rebuilt the engine yourself, this must be done early on.

the rest of the break-in procedure is for the pistons/cylinders, bearings and crank journals, any/all gears, and the valvetrain.
putting too much stress on any of these parts before they break-in (wear evenly to each other) will cause hot spots as well as very drastic higher rate of wear before they are broken in, then causing slop in these parts for the rest of the life of the bike.

nothing can be machined so perfectly that zero break-in is needed, even a run-out or inconsistency in a part of of 0.00001" can cause quite a large amount of wear under certain circumstances.
not that it will or should happen, but just to give you an idea of how much difference it makes, if a metal particle of 0.0001" gets caught between the piston and cylinder and gets stuck there for any amount of time, it can develop a groove in the piston and/or cyl wall like 0.010" deep. I've seen it personally myself many times

basically, a proper break-in will wear out any inconsistencies without harming the rest of the surface. an improper break-in will allow the inconsistencies to wear out all of the rest of that surface, often times making that inconsistency even more profound, thus rapidly increasing the rate of wear to the rest of its components