Bike won't start-Immobilizer

[cptmatt]

I accidently left the ignition on while I attended a meeting that I had
driven to.  This occurred because a)I was in a hurry, and b)I put the
kickstand down, which caused the motor to shut off.  Unfortunately the
automatic light shut off didn't do its duty and the ignition (and light)
remained on.  When I returned, the battery had not drained significantly,
but the Immobilizer had been activated.

Unfortunately, I misplaced my Code Card when I deployed to Afghanistan, and
have moved/transferred so many times that I know that its likely gone for good.
The dealer I bought it from, Wagner Motorsports, never recorded the number.

Surely there is a way to
a) Get the original code from Ducati.
b) Have the code reset by a dealer, once I prove that the bike is indeed
mine, and I am who I say that I am. Which it is and I am.

[Dirty Duc]

The new DP ECUs come with the immobilizer?  I read in your other post you have a full Termi kit with ECU... something sounds strange here.

[Howie]

First, are you sure the bike isn't starting due to the immobilizer?  What is the immobilizer light doing?  Either way, have the battery load tested.  I have yet to hear of anyone being successful in getting a new code card.

If it is the immobilizer, your best option would be to have the computer flashed, removing that function, but before that try the following if you have the red key and the two black keys.

In the event of replacement of one or
more components of the immobilizer
system (e.g. the black keys, the
decoder, or the engine control unit),
the parts in question must be
programmed. To perform this
operation, proceed as follows:
- check that the motorcycle battery
terminals are correctly connected
and that the battery is in perfect
condition.
- Prepare the red key and the black
keys.
- Insert the red key (3) in the ignition
switch (4).
- Turn the key to the ON position to
switch on the instrument panel.
The instrument panel multifunction
display will show the number of
keys inserted (“1” in this case) and
start a countdown from 30 to 0.
Before performing this action
ensure that the ignition switch
remains in the OFF position for at
least thirty seconds.
- Check that the countdown has
started and turn the key to OFF
before it terminates (around three
seconds).
- Remove the red key within
15 seconds, insert a black key (5)
and turn the switch to ON. The
display will show the number of
keys inserted (“2” in this case) and
start a countdown from 30 to 0.
- Check that the countdown has
started and turn the key to OFF
before it terminates.
- Remove the black key within
15 seconds, insert another black
key (5) and turn the switch to ON.
The display will show the number of
keys inserted (“3” in this case) and
start a countdown from 30 to 0.
- Check that the countdown has
started and turn the key to OFF
before it terminates.
- Remove the black key within
15 seconds, insert the red key
again and turn the switch to ON.
The display will show the number of
keys inserted (“4” in this case) and
start a countdown from 30 to 0.
- Check that the countdown has
started and turn the key to OFF
before it terminates. If the
programming sequence has
terminated successfully, LED (1)
on the instrument panel will flash.

[Curmudgeon]

NA

It's a 2009 696. Not sure what's going on there from his earlier posts.

[Howie]

Dang, I did all that for nothing.  Well, not all of it.  The battery should still be checked and the behavior of the immobilizer noted.  The flash option is still there.

[Curmudgeon]

 

I hope you copied and pasted!  I type by the "Columbus Method" myself, (pick a key and land on it). Your post above might have cost me an hour! 

[Howie]

Copy and paste is your friend 

[cptmatt]

Yes, indeed.  This is the second time this happened to me.  In my job, I tend to run around the Air Base a lot going from meeting to meeting, errand to errand.  A couple of times, I have left the ignition on, though the bike turned off (i.e. I activated the kickstand).  But both times, whatever switch is supposed to turn off the headlight, failed.  First time, I burnt out the battery (and it was brand-new!!!).

This time, I caught the error before battery got too low.  It came yay close to starting.  Starter motor was cranking, all the other components seemed ready to go, but not enough juice to push the crank over.  So I poppped the battery tender on it overnight since my last errand was in my office building.  I pulled the Battery Tender, checked the batter level (12.9), but when I tried to start it.....nothing.  I checked menu and the dreaded IMMO code came up.  Odd that it would at least try to start with a slightly low battery, but do NOTHING with a full battery.  The light is bright and I can run the turnsignals and horn at same time, so its not without juice.

I disconnected the headlight module for a minute since that was a suggestions someone made.  I tried both keys (BTW both of them are black, not red).

Am getting mighty frustrated with the electronics on this bike.

[Curmudgeon]

Better start learning to take the key with you! 

Just because the readout says 12.9V doesn't mean you HAVE 12.9V possibly. The ECU may require a minimum voltage to actually fire. It's pointless to sit there cranking anyway.

How close to the nearest dealer? You may have some weird gremlin. Someone here please correct me if I'm wrong, but if the immobilizer were actually deployed, I doubt it would crank at all.

The tender has a solid green light when you unplug it? You are using the fast idle control on the 696 when you try to start it cold? If it doesn't start on the first try, wait 5 minutes and try again. If nothing then, I'd try jumping with a fresh battery. If you still have no luck, leave it with a dealer with the Ducati test computer which shows everything going on in that ECU and they can give all those readings and symptoms to DNA on the phone while they try to diagnose it!

Keep up posted!

[cptmatt]

The first time I tried to start it, it came very close to cranking.  Did the usual wait five minutes, then it got weaker, so I stopped and popped the battery tender on it the following day.  After the light came up green and I pulled the tender, THATS when it did nothing.  I then consulted menu and saw the IMMO.  Last time this happened I think the IMMO light came on as well...not sure.

As it stands, unless there is another 'work-around', am going to have to re-flash the ECU, and eliminate the immobilizer.  Hopefully my local dealer, Fast By Ferraci, can do this, since they seem to do a lot of custom and performance modifications.

Also the EOBD engine light had been lighting up intermittently.  When I brought it to the dealer service shop recently nothing of note came up on the diagnostics, though FBF did fail to note the problem with the headlight remaining on when ignition is on.

As it stands I will probably also disable the kickstand cut-off. More trouble than its worth.  I've never driven off with kickstand down in any bike I've ridden, but I have accidently cut the motor at most inopportune time when I kicked the stand up.

Might also have the ECU remapped while its on the bench, for the slight performance kick that I have read about in previous forums.

But

[cptmatt]

...I wish I could pull the battery a lot easier to remove the terminals, recharge battery while its not drawing power, then hopefully the whole thing re-sets itself. Alas, thats an all day event.
The whole thing is such a mystery.  But correct me on this one, but

a) shouldn't that headlight go off after 60s with the ignition off?

b) shouldn't the dealer haver copied the code in their original documents? or at least told me to do the same? (the original dealer, Wagner Autosports, just handed me the keys, the card, the manual, and said, 'ride safe'). 

[Curmudgeon]

FBF? Maybe Larry Ferracci still does that work, so try speaking to him. Not sure what timer shuts off the headlight. Could be a symptom of something else. You might also have a bad ECU? See what he says about that MIL light too. Could be a bad sensor or bad connection or bad ground. Not "normal".

As for the kick stand switch, you could always take care of that at the switch. It only has to work once to prove the worth of the interlock though, but the less you do with the ECU the better!

As for the headlight, my 796 manual says: (When you deploy the kickstand though, you are NOT turning off the ignition!)

Headlight “smart” auto-off
This function helps reduce battery use by automatically
switching off the headlight. The device is triggered in 3
cases:
- 1) When the key is turned from OFF to ON and the
engine is not started within 60 seconds, the headlight is
turned off and will be turned back on next time you start
the engine.
- in case 2, after the vehicle has been running with the
headlights on and the engine is stopped using the RUNSTOP
button on the RH switch.
In this case, 60 seconds after stopping the engine, the
headlight is turned off and will be turned back on next
time you start the engine.
- 3) While starting up the engine, the headlight is turned off
and back on as soon as the engine is started.

The dealer gives you the code card and the code is hidden. You have to scratch it to read and record the code. Mine didn't record it either. As for warning you what to do with it..., YES..., mine did and any dealer should. Besides the vehicle file drawer, I recorded it in my cell phone and in one other spot.

[cptmatt]

Yes, Larry Ferraci is my local dealer.  Very knowledgeable guy.  Not sure if they do re-flashes there, but I will bring it to them for diagnostic.
As far as the headlight turn off it was one of those options.  I left the engine off, but the key on.  The headlight is supposed to turn off at 60 seconds.  I don't think that leaving the key on triggered the IMMO because
a) the first time I did this, it didn't trigger IMMO
b) the bike actually almost started, not QUITE enough juice after leaving the light on for a few hours.

But here is what the official DUCATI service rep wrote:
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
We're sorry to learn that you did not receive your code card/ have lost your code card. Unfortunately, a code card cannot be replaced. In order to obtain a new code card, a new lockset, dash, and ECU would need to be ordered. Ducati is unable to track immobilizer codes.

In regards to your concern, your bike cannot be started with just the code card. For your information, the code card contains two codes: a Mechanical Code and an Electronic Code. The codes are only of use if the motorcycle suffers a no-start situation. The Electronic Code permits the technician to bypass the Immobilizer System one time per key cycle. This code is used to diagnose a no-start by disabling the Immobilizer. If the motorcycle will then start, the Immobilizer system is at fault. If the motorcycle will still not start, the Immobilizer is not the problem and the technician must continue with the diagnosis. This is the only use of the Key Card in the USA. The Mechanical Code is a European function that was, at one time, available. However, the Factory does not keep the records on file to make replacement keys for the customer based on this code. This code currently has zero functionality for the customer.

The original owner may also want to contact the dealership he purchased the bike from (as some dealerships may have a copy of the code in the sales record). Other than replacing your dash, lockset, and ECU, the only recommendation we can make is for you to encourage the previous owner to locate the code card. We would kindly invite you to indicate us your current address since in our database we have more then one address under your name. Finally, your official Ducati dealer remains at your complete disposal for any further information or advice you may require. To find an Authorized Ducati Dealership, please visit www.ducatiusa.com and click on "Dealer Locator".
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Am not sure what all of that means.  Obviously they are not advocating a reflash, or at least officially.  Its crazy, because there is no reasonable reason that the bike shouldn't start.

[Curmudgeon]

That's a customer service rep. What he says is correct however. A field service rep will only speak to a dealer. They are busy. Naturally DNA would never advocate doing a reflash other than an update they sent the dealer.

Since you have a key, assume it starts and get Ferracci to diagnose it.

No idea whether Larry does flashes. That would be a personal decision or one of liability. No doubt Larry could! When Eraldo ran the factory WSBK program out of his shop there in PA, Larry wrote ALL the software for the 851's and 888's. He did the chips in MY 851 which was one of the first.

Ask Larry all these questions. No idea whether a reflash on the new bikes can eliminate the immobilizer. Others here may know. The ECU's in the new bikes store the mileage, just like a modern car.

[cptmatt]

Well it turns out it was that someone...(the dealer's mechanic), forgot to reconnect the immobilizer antenae.  So, under normal conditions it started, of course.  But once the immobilizer was activated no amount of workarounds was going to bypass it.  Easy fix, but damn....