Caswell Info Requested for Coating of new Tank

[jgrm1]

I measured center-to-center of the leading bolt heads then, for comparison, the trailing bolt heads.  Leading bolts were 286mm and the trailing were 287.  I was surprised, too after reading your above post, and triple checked my measurements.  I used a seamstress tape to take the measurements.  I have a metal scale in my office I will take home and verify.  I'll post if I find a difference between the two measuring devices.

-Jeff     

[ducatiz]

I measured center-to-center of the leading bolt heads then, for comparison, the trailing bolt heads.  Leading bolts were 286mm and the trailing were 287.  I was surprised, too after reading your above post, and triple checked my measurements.  I used a seamstress tape to take the measurements.  I have a metal scale in my office I will take home and verify.  I'll post if I find a difference between the two measuring devices.

-Jeff     

i used a small tape measure -- metal.  i hooked the lip into one hole and ran it straight across.  the lip fit the hole perfectly and centered.

the nylon material can absorb ambient moisture but i am going to assume this is a production variation rather than that.  the frame bumpers are adjustable for a reason.

[jgrm1]

I measured center-to-center of the leading bolt heads then, for comparison, the trailing bolt heads.  Leading bolts were 286mm and the trailing were 287.  I was surprised, too after reading your above post, and triple checked my measurements.  I used a seamstress tape to take the measurements.  I have a metal scale in my office I will take home and verify.  I'll post if I find a difference between the two measuring devices.

-Jeff     

Dimensions confirmed.

-Jeff

[jgrm1]

My tank has joined the ranks of the lined!  Below is a recap of what worked well and what I would do differently in hopes of assisting those that follow.  I took advantage of several low humidity days during this process, but did the entire process in my house, so I could control temperatures.   I followed a combination of instruction from Caswell's, advice from this forum, and common sense to come up with my process.  I am confident that if the lining is not successful, it will not be because of anything I did or did not do.  

Preparation

As mentioned in an above post, I was unsatisfied with the limited areas I could reach inside the tank with either a nylon or metal bristle brush, so I tried the drywall screw method to rough up the surface of the interior of the tank.  I put 50 drywall screws in the tank (dry) then shook the tank in all directions.  I later noticed that the Caswell's instructions suggest swishing the screws around with the soapy water.  If doing this again, I would either cut the heads off the screws or pound them flat because only 43 dropped out initially.  It took a combination of a magnet on a string (which itself got stuck twice), a magnet on a bendable rod, a coat hanger, and a hair dryer to remove those last seven screws that wedged at the trailing sides of the tank.

After finally getting all the screws out, I washed the tank out with Dawn dishwashing detergent and cold water.  After draining, I dried the tank by turning it upside down and pointing a hair dryer - set on no heat â€" into the fuel flange opening for three days.  

When it came time to line the tank, I plugged the fuel filler opening with a 1.75” X 1.50” rubber plug I found in the assorted hardware drawers at Home Depot.  I covered the fuel flange opening with a Plexiglas panel I cut and drilled to match the fuel flange bolt pattern and sealed it with an old gasket.  I covered the entire tank with 3M/Scotch Blue Painter's Tape (2”) to protect the painted surfaces.  As careful as I was, you will get Caswell's on your fingers that you do not want to transfer to the paint.

Mixing

To mix the Caswell's, I picked up a paint mixer, from Wal-Mart, to go on my electric hand drill.  I mixed the epoxy and Xylene in a Tupperware plastic water pitcher, which was the perfect size to hold the kit, mix without splashing, and pour the epoxy into the tank through the fuel flange opening.

Lining

I elected to use the entire kit to shock and awe all the nooks and crannies of the tank.  I added 1 oz. of Xylene to thin the epoxy, so it would flow better.  After pouring the mixture into the tank and applying the fuel flange gasket and Plexiglas cover, I sat on the floor with the tank rotating it through a pattern I felt gave the best coverage. I rotated the tank, repeating the pattern, for two hours while the epoxy started to set up.  

I, on the other hand, hydrated with a couple of Sam Adams Boston Lagers and monitored the residue in the water pitcher to see how the epoxy was setting up.  While rotating the tank, I used a plain drinking straw to periodically blow through the vent and overflow tube nipples on the bottom of the tank to ensure the lines remained open.  I let the entire kit set up in the tank in hopes of getting complete coverage.  Yes, I realize I reduced the capacity of my tank by 24 oz.  

Draining / Drying

Convinced I was not going to see any further coverage from the little remaining flowing material, I removed the Plexiglas panel and propped the tank over a pan with the fuel flange opening level to allow any remaining material to drain.  I saw only three drips in the pan.  As the lining continued to dry, I periodically checked the fuel filler and flange openings for stalactites, which I removed with my pocket knife blade or smoothed over with my finger.

I am beginning my 7500 mile service today, the day after lining the tank, so the lining will have seen plenty of cure time before I put fuel back into the tank.


-Jeff

[uclabiker06]

This seems complicated.  Can someone post a step by step with pics or a vid? ?  I didn't know the replacement tank was the same as the old tank until I got to the dealership (yesterday) so my tank has been exposed to fuel; is that going to be a problem?  What exact casewell coating did you guys use? From where did u get it and the thinner from?

Is this the stuff I will need? http://www.caswellplating.com/aids/epoxygas.htm

[jgrm1]

It's really not complicated.  You simply want to take your time.  My post above is my version of a step-by-step.  Someone posted photos on another link.  Some have lined their tank after being exposed to fuel with good results.  Yes, that is the right Caswell's.

-Jeff

[uclabiker06]

Jgrm1 you mentioned that you could not reach inside the tank with a nylon or metal bristle and I've heard that the drywall screws can get stuck in the tank.

Also if this is the best method to deal with the situation why didn't the dealership inform me??  I understand its not allowed by Ducati as a compay but can't they at least tell the dealers to pass on the information about the coating to customers along with the new tank?  Why did they fill it with fuel before I had a chance to coat it?

What if somone doesn't come on this forum and then his tank swells later on? ?  Doesn't seem logical/fair but I guess this "underground" information is the solution... .  
I'm still reading that long thread but from what I've gathered Ducati is replacing tanks multiple times.  So if they are going to keep replacing it why should I go through the hassle of coating it?  Seems easier to just get yet another one down the road.  Its quite possible that this is perhaps Ducati attempting to see if customers will just shut up and go away by giving them defective but new tanks that just lost their value.  Maybe they are trying to buy time to come up with a better solution to this safety issue?  So far, the lawyers are getting the best end of the deal, then Ducati, then the customers..

[ducatiz]

What if somone doesn't come on this forum and then his tank swells later on? ?  Doesn't seem logical/fair but I guess this "underground" information is the solution... .  
I'm still reading that long thread but from what I've gathered Ducati is replacing tanks multiple times.  So if they are going to keep replacing it why should I go through the hassle of coating it?  Seems easier to just get yet another one down the road.  Its quite possible that this is perhaps Ducati attempting to see if customers will just shut up and go away by giving them defective but new tanks that just lost a lot of their value.  Maybe there is a statute of limitation that they want to run out?  Maybe they have a little deal going on with Casewell under the table?  The lawyers are getting the best end of the deal, then Ducati, then the customers..

Ducati will no longer automatically replace tanks.  The settlement of the lawsuit provides for some tank replacement of painted models but not all.  The standard for replacing a tank is higher. 

You're a little late to the conversation so I will just say try to read the terms of the settlement and then keep up with this and other Caswell threads.

As far as what happens if someone uses the coating and kaplooey?  Shit happens.  Ducati tested the coating and got bad results.  The test was likely invalid from the get-go: there is no information as to how they prepared the tank or the solution or why they only tested one tank and used only 100% ethanol for the test. 

There are better epoxy formulations out there (that are designed to work with ethanol) but Caswells seems to be working fine when the tank is prepped correctly.

As far as anything else, unless you objected to the lawsuit, you're done.

[uclabiker06]

I object! I didn't know they tested some sort of coating and got "bad" results.  Wont this keep going if a lot of the class objects?  How can I object anyways? what do I do? 

[ducatiz]

I object! I didn't know they tested some sort of coating and got "bad" results.  Wont this keep going if a lot of the class objects?  How can I object anyways? what do I do?

its done.  time to object is finished.

[uclabiker06]

I just don't understand if the tests were invalid then why didn't more people object?  Eh whatever...as they say it is what it is.  Thanks for the reply.

[EEL]

Here's the bottom line, when I read the class action lawsuit documentation. It says that owners are entitled to a replacement tank if the bike qualifies and the expansion is visible/measurable. The way I read it is this gives ducati a clear cut line in the sand that says that they are not obligated to replace tanks once they have already done it from here on. Nowhere in the class action lawsuit does it say that Ducati is responsible to replace faulty tanks for eternity.

So, you can approach it this way. You can try the caswell and hope it works OR your can use the standard replacement tank and cross your fingers that Ducati feels pity for you 3-4 years down the road when this issue pops up again and gives you another freebie tank (even though they are not legally obligated to do so)

I chose to spend 50 dollars now and not sit around and hope for a business to choose customer service over profit. If my caswells fails. 'll probably just end up getting a CA-Cycleworks tank in the future and call it a day. In the end the 50 dollars I spent on Caswell spread over 4 years is a risk I'm willing to take. I'll make it up by having 3 less burritos a year for lunch.

[ducatiz]

Dimensions confirmed.

-Jeff

I measured a metal tank off a 2003 EFI model.

Hole to hole center is 286mm. 

Looks like my plastic tanks are swollen a tad..

[Gadgetech]

I'm curious about the tank replacement and I'm hoping I can get a response here since this is a pretty active thread.  I apologize if I should post this somewhere else.  I dropped my bike off at the dealership today to get some new tires and have them look at the expanded tank issue.  I just purchased the bike on Saturday with 3300 miles and I've got to say I'm a little put off by a rear tire on the bike that was worn down to the wear bars and an expanded tank that I seem to be getting pushback on.    I was told today by the service manager that they repair is to put a new bracket on the bike.  I asked what the bracket does and was told it is to provide a wider support base to which I responded that the problem is the tank is elongated...not widened.  The response was the bracket is the fix at which point I said it wasn't and that the latch on the front of the tank doesn't move an inch before being stopped by the ignition.  Finally the service manager indicated that they have to put the bracket on first and then take pictures of the tank.  Once that has been done they will get the Ducati rep involved to decide if a replacement is in order.  Is this similar to everyone elses experience?  Literally, the latch on the front of the tank may move an inch...you can't really move the tank by loostening the latch.     Just curious if I'm going to run into an issue here.  Has anyone else been denied a new tank?  Thanks for the help.

[ducpainter]

I'm curious about the tank replacement and I'm hoping I can get a response here since this is a pretty active thread.  I apologize if I should post this somewhere else.  I dropped my bike off at the dealership today to get some new tires and have them look at the expanded tank issue.  I just purchased the bike on Saturday with 3300 miles and I've got to say I'm a little put off by a rear tire on the bike that was worn down to the wear bars and an expanded tank that I seem to be getting pushback on.    I was told today by the service manager that they repair is to put a new bracket on the bike.  I asked what the bracket does and was told it is to provide a wider support base to which I responded that the problem is the tank is elongated...not widened.  The response was the bracket is the fix at which point I said it wasn't and that the latch on the front of the tank doesn't move an inch before being stopped by the ignition.  Finally the service manager indicated that they have to put the bracket on first and then take pictures of the tank.  Once that has been done they will get the Ducati rep involved to decide if a replacement is in order.  Is this similar to everyone elses experience?  Literally, the latch on the front of the tank may move an inch...you can't really move the tank by loostening the latch.     Just curious if I'm going to run into an issue here.  Has anyone else been denied a new tank?  Thanks for the help.

You should read the tank threads in the General Forum.

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=25074.0

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=43639.0