Tools for valve adjustment

[lazylightnin717]

I'm getting myself prepared to do the valves and belts on my S4 this winter. It will be my first time around so I'm trying to be as prepared as possible. Ordered the LT Snyder handbook and have watched every movie and read every write-up I can possibly find. That said, here is where I am at.

-Ordering new belts
-Have a digi caliper and plan on purchasing or borrowing a micrometer
-Have plenty of metric sockets and open-ended wrenches and allen keys
-Have telescoping magnet and picks

Anybody recommend a set of feeler gauges?

I'm planning on ordering new seals for the valve covers.

Here is the where I have some questions regarding tools. I've been looking at the tools that Desmo Times offers... Specifically the closing rocker depressor and the rocker pin extractor.

Now... I work in the stage building business and we have a full blown machine shop with everything I could ever possibly need to make some of my own tools. The two that I mentioned above look fairly simple to make and it would save me $76. I have access to TGP, cold rolled, and stainless rod... tons of it. Aluminum as well. I'm assuming the ones on Desmo Times are steel to add weight. I would probably go with stainless. 

All I'm looking for are some dimensions if anybody has the tools already. I have a pretty good idea just by looking at the pictures. But small things would help.

-What is the thread at the end of the rocker pin extractor (I want to pull the rockers to look for flaking)
-Any idea for over all length?

-Overall length of the closing rocker depressing tool?
-It looks like it might be counter-bored at the end to keep it located on the rocker when applying pressure?

Hmmmmm I can't think of anything else at the moment. Any helpful info would be great regarding tools or experiences. I'm sure I will have many more questions once the time comes. Also, if anyone is interested in really helping out, I might be able to make more than one of the tools if somebody else is in need.

**I do not wish to rip off Desmo Times in any way or intend to make any money in any way from this project**

[Slide Panda]

EMS makes those tools not DT, they are just retailing.

Yes, the depressor is counter bored.

I've this set of feelers:
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00940802000P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1#specs

- But it looks like the set on DT have a couple even slimmer blades so it seems to be a nice set for this application.

Other handy items:
- Crank turning tool.
- For 4v - the appropriate sized cam lock. Just a properly sized and shaped 1/8+" plate that keeps the two cams lined up when you're trying to put the belts back on.

[Cloner]

It'd be nice to have something to set belt tension, too.  I like MotoReva's frequency tool, personally.

Don't forget to mark the belts and cam wheels as you take things apart.  The marks on the pulleys won't mean much to you on deep sump and later models.

[thought]

if you have a iphone i remember seeing a belt tensioning app for it mentioned here last winter.

it basically just used your iphone mic to check the frequency... i think it was like 20-40 dollars.

[elgallo73]

In conjunction with Sad Panda's recommendation, if you are put off spending the $65.00 for the crank turning tool, try this:

http://www.motomfg.com/Crank_shaft_turning_tool_for_Ducati_s_p/et-1.htm

I ordered this crank turning tool for $25.00 and it is made out of stainless.  If you have a digital caliper, I'm not sure you need a micrometer, and vice versa.  I think the digital calipers are more of a convenience item (no need to convert and much easier to use, but I could be wrong...)

I have the rocker depressing tool (ordered from Desmo Times).  The tool is made out of stainless and comes in at 5 3/4 inches long.

I ran into the same issue Sad Panda noted with the feeler gauges.  The ones you typically find may not have the smaller blades necessary for the tight clearances you will be working with on your valve shims, so make sure you double check before you order.  The smallest blade mine has is .0015 inches/.038mm.

One note, are you planning to machine your own closing shim tool?  They run $13.00 at Desmo Times.

I ordered the tools I needed from Desmo Times, the price is reasonable and the hard part of locating what "works" against me having to figure out which tool was most appropriate made the decision easy...

[elgallo73]

For belt tensioning, I purchased a tuner similar to this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Korg-KOR-CA30-CA-30-Chromatic/dp/B000BBRZ3S

For $15.00 (mine does not have as large a display and I paid $8.00) you cannot beat the price...

Does anyone here just set tension by hand (1/4 turn method, etc.)?  I've replaced timing belts in the past when we did not have a "frequency meter" without issue...

[lazylightnin717]

if you have a iphone i remember seeing a belt tensioning app for it mentioned here last winter.

it basically just used your iphone mic to check the frequency... i think it was like 20-40 dollars.

I do... but it is the original 3G which makes it well over 3 years old. Not sure if I put my trust in it.

[lazylightnin717]

For belt tensioning, I purchased a tuner similar to this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Korg-KOR-CA30-CA-30-Chromatic/dp/B000BBRZ3S

For $15.00 (mine does not have as large a display and I paid $8.00) you cannot beat the price...

Does anyone here just set tension by hand (1/4 turn method, etc.)?  I've replaced timing belts in the past when we did not have a "frequency meter" without issue...

Good find. I'll definitely check those out. I've read a little bit about people using 4,5,6mm allen keys to gauge belt tension but if there is a cheap alternative, I'd feel a little better about that.

In conjunction with Sad Panda's recommendation, if you are put off spending the $65.00 for the crank turning tool, try this:

http://www.motomfg.com/Crank_shaft_turning_tool_for_Ducati_s_p/et-1.htm

I ordered this crank turning tool for $25.00 and it is made out of stainless.

Pardon my ignorance, but I was under the impression that I could put the bike on stands in 6th gear and turn the rear wheel 

[Speeddog]

Cheapest belt tensioning:
Set the freeplay at 10mm (+/-5mm) on the belt run between the cam pullies.
I've done this on numerous desmoquattro engines, including my own 50k miles S4.

California Cycleworks has a nice 3-piece set of small feeler gages; 2/3, 4/5, 6/8 thousandths.

you can get the shim measuring tool from EMS, as well as the shims.

Use caution when measuring the 7mm openers with a micrometer.
Some, like my Starrett, won't fit all the way down to the bottom,so the reading is crap.
IIRC, California Cycleworks has a tiny Kawasaki shim that will fit inside the Duc shim so you can take a proper measurement.

To set the tensioner pulley *easily*, you'll need a 22mm offset box wrench... there was a thread here somewhere...
Here it is: http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=3671.0
More relevant info on other stuff too.

[lazylightnin717]

Speeddog

Could you explain better how the EMS shim measuring tool works?

[elgallo73]

Set the freeplay at 10mm (+/-5mm) on the belt run between the cam pullies.
I've done this on numerous desmoquattro engines, including my own 50k miles S4.

Exactly what I was looking for, I think this is similar to using the 5mm key between the belt and idler, much easier.  I'm not sure what the deal with the frequency tools and the like is about, this is not rocket science and I do not see the need to make it so either...

[Speeddog]

Speeddog

Could you explain better how the EMS shim measuring tool works?

http://www.emsduc.com/assets/Discolor.explanation.pdf

[lazylightnin717]

http://www.emsduc.com/assets/Discolor.explanation.pdf

Fantastic. Thank you

That being the case, could I get by with just a digi caliper and no micrometer?

[elgallo73]

You can use either a digital caliper or micrometer, the digital caliper will make reading a bit easier and you will not have to convert to metric (if millimeters are available on the dial) unless you have a metric micrometer.  In this application, either one will do...

[Speeddog]

A caliper will work with the tool, on a closer shim.

You'll need either the Kawi Shim to do openers, or a micrometer with a spindle narrow enough to get inside the pocket.