1100 Evo + PC5? 14t?

[pyrocpu]

~ 500mi so far on the Evo. Not much, but getting a bit tired of the fueling issues. Stalls sometimes when rev-matching downshifts, super stumbly at anything below 4K; when engine's fully warmed up, sometimes taking off from a stop sign yields a stall if revs aren't > 2K. Maybe it's because I just came from a Japanese bike, but this is just a PITA. Some have said it's part of the Ducati charm; meh. Not acceptable drivability.

Question here is... with the Evo having DTC, I really wonder if a PC5 and/or a 14t countershaft sprocket would get along w/ the DTC OK. I'm not really wanting to drop $1800 on the Termi slip-on kit, just for the Termi ECU. OTOH, I'm not really a fan of "voiding" my warranty either (in reference to the Pro Italia/ducatiperformance.com $250 reflash). FWIW as an ancillary note, I'm OK w/ the OE exhaust (at least for now )

I was a big fan of the Two Brothers Juice Box on my Yamaha. PnP, reasonably affordable, and no tuning required. Available only for the 696, I really wish they had at least an 1100 application. One other member here had indicated that the dealer could re-flash the ECU w/ new software, but I can't help but think that drivability would be improved marginally at best. To that effect, I do not understand what the difference is between my dealer being able to re-flash the ECU and not "void" the warranty, and Pro Italia's re-flash.

I understand the Evo's only been out only a few months and there aren't that many units in operation. But, UIO aside, anyone care to comment on viable countermeasures?

[Howie]

The issues you describe are not normal.  They need to be addressed first.

[El-Twin]

I test rode the EVO recently and found the same low-speed fueling issues that you describe. I asked the dealer his opinion about the 14-tooth sprocket swap and he said he thought going from the 39-tooth rear sprocket to a 41-tooth was a better option.

He agreed that getting the revs out of the emissions zone faster would probably help, but that a 41-tooth rear was easier on the chain and produced better driveability. By this he meant that the 14-tooth countershaft option produced more drivetrain lash and more jerkiness on deceleration.

I would like to know more about the ECU and PC5 options as well.

[rockaduc]

The issues you describe are not normal.  They need to be addressed first.

+1

[MadDuck]

The issues you describe are not normal.  They need to be addressed first.

Careful. There is a bit of a fine line here between not normal & normal. There are known issues that can be resolved or made better, that's true. However, no matter how well tuned the engine is, there are still basic driveability characteristics that the big twin has and if the rider is looking to get the twin to act like an I4 that just isn't going to happen. I4's will always be easier to ride away from a stop and will display far less fueling issues at lower RPM's. Changing the gearing, either way, only moves the "problem" and makes it a bit easier to deal with but it doesn't eliminate it. The upgraded fuel/timing maps help a bunch for sure but still don't make the engine run like an I4.

[scooterd145]

My stalling issues were solved with a DP ECU. I don't really understand the lust for 14t sprockets? This thing pulls like a train, and wheelies with too much throttle in first already, I would think a 14t sprocket would make that "issue" worse. Currently 6500 miles and I don't have any driveability issues since the change to DP ECU, which resulted in also unhooking the exhaust flapper (maybe just a DUC.ee would have resolved this?) . Look around and you can find a DP ECU at a decent price for these...

Noe: for me the DP ECU actually tamed this thing quite a bit. at first I thought too much, but have gotten quite used to it. It did not increase power/torque for me (at least with my butt dyno) but did smooth everything out.

Scott 

[EvilSteve]

I have an EVO with ~1000 miles on it. I think that the issues you're describing are a little more than normal big twin drivability problems. I'd definitely get it checked at the dealer and make sure they verify any service bulletins have been performed.

For me, my initial feeling on the 1100 EVO is that it handles really well and is a blast to ride but I think that it has some core issues many of which are probably down to fueling. Beyond the fuel related issues, I have to say that the worst thing about the bike is the servo assisted APTC. It's really annoying/disconcerting to have the bike revving when I'm trying to stop...

Other than that I have a spare ECU now that I'm probably going to get flashed to increase the rev limit and I might have to remove the O2 sensors as well because I'm not exactly happy with the drivability down low either. I have a 14T front sprocket but I bought that because 6th gear was pretty pointless without it. ~4k RPM @ 80 MPH? When am I ever going to use that beyond the freeway (and honestly, only >65MPH speed limit freeways)?

Edit: for the record, this is my 3rd Ducati Monster so I'm no stranger to the low rev drivability issue.

[Narflar]

I have an EVO and the stalling on downshifts is NOT normal. 

The stumbling below 4k and stalling when taking off at 2k is the same on any big twin sport bike.  I know ducatis and suzukis do it I can only assume the same is for the others.  There isn't a big flywheel like on harley's and other twin cruisers to keep the engine turning at low RPMs.  You gotta spin them up or they'll stumble and stall.

[Howie]

I have an EVO and the stalling on downshifts is NOT normal. 

The stumbling below 4k and stalling when taking off at 2k is the same on any big twin sport bike.  I know ducatis and suzukis do it I can only assume the same is for the others.  There isn't a big flywheel like on harley's and other twin cruisers to keep the engine turning at low RPMs.  You gotta spin them up or they'll stumble and stall.

BINGO!

[pyrocpu]

To be fair, the stalling between a 3 --> 2 downshift happened just once, but was definitely such a sudden change, I thought I'd flipped the kill switch!

More consistently, what can happen is right after I start the bike. If I blip the throttle quickly, the engine will stall.

Granted, there is definitely a learning curve, much like moving from a Windows machine to a Mac, and I totally understand it's not going to be like an I4. I'll just start with getting more acclimated to dialing up the revs more, and consequently slip the clutch more.

I should be done w/ the break-in period in a week or so here, so I'll keep folks posted on what the dealer can do. With all honesty, I'm reluctant to make any gearing changes before the complete break-in process is done. The other thing about the gearing is that I'm under the impression that gearing changes would change the speedo reading. Right now with stock gearing, I'm seeing the speedo being just about matched with GPS speed. Pedantic, to be sure, though I do like that harmony. 

[Howie]

To be fair, the stalling between a 3 --> 2 downshift happened just once, but was definitely such a sudden change, I thought I'd flipped the kill switch!

More consistently, what can happen is right after I start the bike. If I blip the throttle quickly, the engine will stall.

Granted, there is definitely a learning curve, much like moving from a Windows machine to a Mac, and I totally understand it's not going to be like an I4. I'll just start with getting more acclimated to dialing up the revs more, and consequently slip the clutch more.

I should be done w/ the break-in period in a week or so here, so I'll keep folks posted on what the dealer can do. With all honesty, I'm reluctant to make any gearing changes before the complete break-in process is done. The other thing about the gearing is that I'm under the impression that gearing changes would change the speedo reading. Right now with stock gearing, I'm seeing the speedo being just about matched with GPS speed. Pedantic, to be sure, though I do like that harmony. 

Gearing changes will not affect the speedometer.  The speed sensor is located at the rear wheel.

Try this for the stalling:
With the throttle closed and the fast idle off turn the key on and off three times (do not start).  This will reset the TPS (throttle position sensor)

[DucNaked]

My 1100s stalled 3 times that I can recall. They all happened on downshifts. After the first time I brought it to the dealer they though  that it was running to lean in the closed loop. They fiddled with the air screws I think, and sent me on my way.

It happened a couple more times, so I got an extra ECU cheap. I bought the Rexxer Unit and flashed it. I haven't had any stalling problems since.

The map I installed removed the closed loop (o2 sensors) which I think smoothed out the jerky ness of the lower rpms. I think that if I didn't already have the the 14 tooth sprocket installed i would have stayed with the stock sprocket.

[DoWorkSon]

Everything I have ever read or experienced with 2v bikes has always been low end stumble... What I have found, the harder you ride them(high rpms) they seem to run soooo much better.

Around town the bike might seem jerky and unstable, but once you get into the hills and ride the bike hard, it responds and runs like a dream.

Maybe it's that your not used to it yet coming from jab bikes? Riding a jap bike and a monster are two different beasts. if I were to go from my monster to a jap bike there might be a slight learning curve...

However, I have found that these new Gen bikes do need fueling adjustment, whether it's a reflash, power commander, or juice box(I have had all three). Power commander with the auto tune is the beat option in the long run

[pyrocpu]

Howie--thanks for the TPS reset procedure. I'll give it a go in the morning. Since the 1100 doesn't have a fast idle lever, I assume I'll just leave that part out. Also good to hear that the speedo is driven off of wheel speed!  Too much time in the car world, with vehicle speed determined at the output shaft of the trans.

DoWork--I did ride a bit more "spiritedly" in the back roads today. Elevation changes, cambered turns--you ARE right--this thing comes alive when moving a bit more. I hadn't really felt the "oneness" with the bike yet--today was the first day with that feeling. 

I think what I'll do for now is to ride it until the 1st service. See what dealer can do. I really hope they can re-flash the ECU w/ something more workable. If that doesn't work, I'll have to start thinking long/hard to determine if $1800 on a Termi kit is even logical!

[ChrisH]

When your bike stalled, was the bike fully warmed up? On my 696, while a different beast, I only ever experience stalling issues when the bike is too cold. When I mean cold, I'm only referring to the engine temp not ambient.