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Ducati ECU Tuning Resources
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Topic: Ducati ECU Tuning Resources (Read 57704 times)
accludetuner
Jennifer Connelly's boobs give me a raging
Full Member
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Posts: 190
I AM NOT A MONSTER!
Re: Ducati ECU Tuning Resources
«
Reply #15 on:
September 22, 2011, 10:25:52 PM »
I'm trying to find info on the distinct ECU "families." Like the sbk's are all in one "family" with the 996 being the one real oddball. Anyone have a good refernece on all the different families of duc ECUs?
Also, anyone interested in helping with the site? Moderator or something like that? Maybe give some input on site setup before it goes live?
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I can fit massive amounts of meat in my mouth!
My 748/916/996/998 SBK parts for sale!
Speeddog
West Valley Flatlander
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Re: Ducati ECU Tuning Resources
«
Reply #16 on:
September 23, 2011, 08:00:51 AM »
If you Google "ducati ecu models", you'll find some good info.
Like this:
http://www.ducati.ms/forums/11-ducati-motorcycle-chat/60175-model-ecu-list.html
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adduncan101
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Posts: 25
Re: Ducati ECU Tuning Resources
«
Reply #17 on:
September 27, 2011, 08:40:48 AM »
accludetuner,
This is something I really loved about my sporty. There are not as many easy ECU mods for these scoots. There is a dude by the name of "Rico" on the XL Forum that is a wiz with the HD units, he helped me a ton. I have a Daytona TC88 module in the Sporty and it is easily programed with the TC88 software. There has to be an easy hack for the Ducs. Please let me know if I can help.
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CDawg
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Re: Ducati ECU Tuning Resources
«
Reply #18 on:
September 28, 2011, 05:54:22 AM »
<bookmark>
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greenmonster
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Posts: 1283
Re: Ducati ECU Tuning Resources
«
Reply #19 on:
September 29, 2011, 03:38:25 AM »
Not much f free out there I think.
Takes a lot of time & skill to crack ECU`s, maybe not surpricing few are giving the knowledge away.
Here is one, though, f 1.6:
http://ftp.pwp.att.net/w/a/wayneorwig/utils.html#ecuedit
I think the best way of getting info is having something to share, info the tuners could use in exchange f their knowledge.
You must also consider ECU tuning/modifying is a part of their business.
«
Last Edit: September 29, 2011, 03:40:06 AM by greenmonster
»
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accludetuner
Jennifer Connelly's boobs give me a raging
Full Member
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Posts: 190
I AM NOT A MONSTER!
Re: Ducati ECU Tuning Resources
«
Reply #20 on:
October 04, 2011, 09:47:07 PM »
Just a quick update for anyone curious....
I've copied the stock 748 memcal to my laptop and have started dissecting it.
I also have all the documentation for the MC68HC11 MCU that's within the 16M ECU (and I suspect many other Duc ECUs as well).
I'm going through and picking apart the bin now and have made some very serious progress. I also found a very incomplete, yet functional XDF for the 16M ECUs (thanks for Desmo over at Speedzilla.com) to allow tuning through TunerPro which I am very familiar with and have used to tune several cars in the past. Using that XDF as a base and my bin file, I've found all the NECESSARY stuff to perform basic tuning on the 16M ECUs. I'm still working on finding other tables and options within the bin to allow for more advanced tuning and to figure out proper datalogging and emulation capabilities.
The site is basically done, but I'm working on setting it up with all of the knowledge I currently have, as well as all the files, software, documentation, and other things that I have so that once it goes live, it's a great starting point for anyone interested in tuning themselves, or helping out with hacking the Ducs ECUs to expand the community.
Keep in mind that I'm working on this in my spare time (which is not a lot right now) so it might take some time for me to fill up the site and post it live, but I'd rather it be a solid start that's organized and presentable than a terrible clusterF like most sites.
Bottom line is that I'm already at a point that I can tune my own Duc with my own computer and since I had all of my old tuning stuff it cost me $0. Now I'm looking to expand the current DIY tuning possibilities for the 16M ECUs and to make the same tuning options available to all of the FI Ducs
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I can fit massive amounts of meat in my mouth!
My 748/916/996/998 SBK parts for sale!
accludetuner
Jennifer Connelly's boobs give me a raging
Full Member
Offline
Posts: 190
I AM NOT A MONSTER!
Re: Ducati ECU Tuning Resources
«
Reply #21 on:
October 05, 2011, 12:25:44 AM »
Also,
IF THIS CODE:
Code:
A8B0
15 22 10 LA8B0
bclr
L0022, #%00010000
A8B3
13 20 04 15
brclr
L0020, #%00000100, LA8CC
A8B7
14 20 0C
bset
L0020, #%00001100
A8BA
14 0B 10
bset
TMR_OCR1d, #%00010000
A8BD
DC 0E
ldD
L000E
A8BF
FD 20 E2
stD
L20E2
A8C2
F3 01 B5
addD
L01B5
A8C5
DD 1C
stD
TMR_OCR3d
A8C7
15 20 04
bclr
L0020, #%00000100
A8CA
20 2A
jr
LA8F6
;
A8CC
B6 01 73 LA8CC
ldaA
L0173
A8CF
F6 01 C3
ldaB
L01C3
A8D2
3D
mul
A8D3
8F
xgDX
A8D4
B6 01 74
ldaA
L0174
A8D7
F6 01 C3
ldaB
L01C3
A8DA
3D
mul
A8DB
89 20
adcA
#$20
A8DD
16
tAB
A8DE
3A
aBX
A8DF
8F
xgDX
A8E0
FD 01 A7
stD
L01A7
A8E3
F3 20 E4
addD
L20E4
A8E6
DD 1C
stD
TMR_OCR3d
A8E8
DC 0E
ldD
L000E
A8EA
B3 20 E4
subD
L20E4
A8ED
1A B3 01 A7
cmpD
L01A7
A8F1
25 03
bcs
LA8F6
A8F3
14 0B 10
bset
TMR_OCR1d, #%00010000
A8F6
7F 01 6F LA8F6
clr
L016F
A8F9
FC 01 73
ldD
L0173
A8FC
FD 01 76
stD
L0176
A8FF
B6 01 72
ldaA
L0172
A902
B7 01 75
staA
L0175
A905
B6 20 EA
ldaA
L20EA
A908
B1 01 3C
cmpA
L013C
A90B
26 18
bne
LA925
A90D
14 AC 08
bset
L00AC, #%00001000
A910
13 20 20 06
brclr
L0020, #%00100000, LA91A
A914
15 20 10
bclr
L0020, #%00010000
A917
14 0B 20
bset
TMR_OCR1d, #%00100000
A91A
15 B0 40 LA91A
bclr
L00B0, #%01000000
A91D
15 AA 10
bclr
L00AA, #%00010000
A920
BD B5 B8
call
LB5B8
A923
20 1B
jr
LA940
;
makes any sense to you, then I could certainly use your help reverse engineering this thing. There's about 8 thousands lines of code to go through and doing it in my spare time will take forever. Plus I've tuned cars before, but that was using existing bin files and existing definitions. This is my first time digging down to the assembly level to make it happen. I've got a decent grip on it, but I'm very slow and have to do a lot of research as I go. Some help commenting out the disassembled file would certainly speed things up!!!
Logged
I can fit massive amounts of meat in my mouth!
My 748/916/996/998 SBK parts for sale!
CDawg
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 1468
S4RS
Re: Ducati ECU Tuning Resources
«
Reply #22 on:
October 05, 2011, 05:17:04 AM »
Wow! Cool progress. Sorry I cannot help as I have no relevant skills.
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nicholasv
New Member
Offline
Posts: 43
Re: Ducati ECU Tuning Resources
«
Reply #23 on:
December 30, 2011, 11:41:19 PM »
So I have started to get interested in this as well. Seems there just isn't any info on hacking the Ducati ECU like in the auto world.
From looking at Ducatidiag and learning a little bit about the OBD protocols, it looks like its just a matter or learning what Standard PID's are supported on the various ECUs (like RPM, and temp) and what proprietary Magnetti-Marelli or Ducati specific PID's are needed to access everything else.
I am assuming that Ducatidiag writer is also using OBD to flash the ECU, reset the immobilizer, etc.
I have mixed feelings about paying €100 for the writer software. I kinda feel like that should be shared openly (at least the protocol / PIDs etc) and maybe one should ask for a donation for upkeep and development of the software.
Anyway, I might spend some time on an Android app to do some of this. Your site would be a great place to share infomation about all this.
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HotIce
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 812
Re: Ducati ECU Tuning Resources
«
Reply #24 on:
January 01, 2012, 10:11:37 AM »
I hope you like hacking because the time of doing that starting from zero will account for far more than hundred bucks.
Unless Syneject M3C ECU sheets will leak (I failed in finding any traces), you have to start from zero.
First, you have to understand the protocol used to read/write image files within the ECU. Could be KWP2K/ISO, but you don't know.
If you have something which is already able to read/write, you have to sniff the transaction (serial, CAN, K-line, ... - depending of the HW interface of the tool you have) and see the traffic which is going on.
This will likely include some sort of "authentication" between the tester and the ECU, probably based on some "seed" passed by the ECU to the tester.
Once you understand the protocol to read/write, you might want to be very successful in reading the existing images and writing them back, unless you want to run over many bricked ECUs.
Once you are able to do that, you are at 1/3 of the way.
Then the joy starts, and you have to be able to reverse engineer the image file, understand what zones are code, and what zones are maps.
And the maps, there is more than one, so you have to understand which one controls what. You are going to be looking at a very wild Monster otherwise.
When you are perfectly able to understand which maps are for what, you need to have something which allows you to extract them and edit them easily (as they are a few thousand values arrays).
Final part, you have to reverse engineer the checksum used by the ECU to validate the image file.
Or, you can bribe some Chinese/Taiwanese at Synerject and get the specs
http://www.synerject.com/contacts.html
«
Last Edit: January 01, 2012, 10:14:41 AM by HotIce
»
Logged
HotIce
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 812
Re: Ducati ECU Tuning Resources
«
Reply #25 on:
January 01, 2012, 10:29:33 AM »
Quote from: accludetuner on October 05, 2011, 12:25:44 AM
Also,
IF THIS CODE:
Code:
A8B0
15 22 10 LA8B0
bclr
L0022, #%00010000
A8B3
13 20 04 15
brclr
L0020, #%00000100, LA8CC
A8B7
14 20 0C
bset
L0020, #%00001100
A8BA
14 0B 10
bset
TMR_OCR1d, #%00010000
A8BD
DC 0E
ldD
L000E
A8BF
FD 20 E2
stD
L20E2
A8C2
F3 01 B5
addD
L01B5
A8C5
DD 1C
stD
TMR_OCR3d
A8C7
15 20 04
bclr
L0020, #%00000100
A8CA
20 2A
jr
LA8F6
;
A8CC
B6 01 73 LA8CC
ldaA
L0173
A8CF
F6 01 C3
ldaB
L01C3
A8D2
3D
mul
A8D3
8F
xgDX
A8D4
B6 01 74
ldaA
L0174
A8D7
F6 01 C3
ldaB
L01C3
A8DA
3D
mul
A8DB
89 20
adcA
#$20
A8DD
16
tAB
A8DE
3A
aBX
A8DF
8F
xgDX
A8E0
FD 01 A7
stD
L01A7
A8E3
F3 20 E4
addD
L20E4
A8E6
DD 1C
stD
TMR_OCR3d
A8E8
DC 0E
ldD
L000E
A8EA
B3 20 E4
subD
L20E4
A8ED
1A B3 01 A7
cmpD
L01A7
A8F1
25 03
bcs
LA8F6
A8F3
14 0B 10
bset
TMR_OCR1d, #%00010000
A8F6
7F 01 6F LA8F6
clr
L016F
A8F9
FC 01 73
ldD
L0173
A8FC
FD 01 76
stD
L0176
A8FF
B6 01 72
ldaA
L0172
A902
B7 01 75
staA
L0175
A905
B6 20 EA
ldaA
L20EA
A908
B1 01 3C
cmpA
L013C
A90B
26 18
bne
LA925
A90D
14 AC 08
bset
L00AC, #%00001000
A910
13 20 20 06
brclr
L0020, #%00100000, LA91A
A914
15 20 10
bclr
L0020, #%00010000
A917
14 0B 20
bset
TMR_OCR1d, #%00100000
A91A
15 B0 40 LA91A
bclr
L00B0, #%01000000
A91D
15 AA 10
bclr
L00AA, #%00010000
A920
BD B5 B8
call
LB5B8
A923
20 1B
jr
LA940
;
makes any sense to you, then I could certainly use your help reverse engineering this thing. There's about 8 thousands lines of code to go through and doing it in my spare time will take forever. Plus I've tuned cars before, but that was using existing bin files and existing definitions. This is my first time digging down to the assembly level to make it happen. I've got a decent grip on it, but I'm very slow and have to do a lot of research as I go. Some help commenting out the disassembled file would certainly speed things up!!!
Here's the S12X manual, which
should be
is the main CPU within the M3C ECU:
http://www.freescale.com/files/microcontrollers/doc/ref_manual/S12XCPUV1.pdf
«
Last Edit: January 01, 2012, 01:29:10 PM by HotIce
»
Logged
accludetuner
Jennifer Connelly's boobs give me a raging
Full Member
Offline
Posts: 190
I AM NOT A MONSTER!
Re: Ducati ECU Tuning Resources
«
Reply #26 on:
January 01, 2012, 03:04:49 PM »
Quote from: HotIce on January 01, 2012, 10:11:37 AM
I hope you like hacking because the time of doing that starting from zero will account for far more than hundred bucks.
Unless Syneject M3C ECU sheets will leak (I failed in finding any traces), you have to start from zero.
First, you have to understand the protocol used to read/write image files within the ECU. Could be KWP2K/ISO, but you don't know.
If you have something which is already able to read/write, you have to sniff the transaction (serial, CAN, K-line, ... - depending of the HW interface of the tool you have) and see the traffic which is going on.
This will likely include some sort of "authentication" between the tester and the ECU, probably based on some "seed" passed by the ECU to the tester.
Once you understand the protocol to read/write, you might want to be very successful in reading the existing images and writing them back, unless you want to run over many bricked ECUs.
Once you are able to do that, you are at 1/3 of the way.
Then the joy starts, and you have to be able to reverse engineer the image file, understand what zones are code, and what zones are maps.
And the maps, there is more than one, so you have to understand which one controls what. You are going to be looking at a very wild Monster otherwise.
When you are perfectly able to understand which maps are for what, you need to have something which allows you to extract them and edit them easily (as they are a few thousand values arrays).
Final part, you have to reverse engineer the checksum used by the ECU to validate the image file.
Or, you can bribe some Chinese/Taiwanese at Synerject and get the specs
http://www.synerject.com/contacts.html
ALL good info and that's the point of the site......to get a COMMUNITY EFFORT in making all of this stuff work.
I don't have anything on M3C's but does this give you an idea of what I'm working with for my 16M from my 748?
From the full 8k lines of assembly code I posted above, I was able to figure out enough to make a definition file for use with TunerPro. The bin has no checksum so I got lucky with that. Here's my VERY BASIC, yet functional bin file being edited in action It's FAR from complete, but it is to a point that you can tune with it
Here's the same table thrown into a spreadsheet and a chart made for it:
And this is both of the charts side by side. The spreadsheet is primitive but it's the same data and there are several ways to manipulate it:
«
Last Edit: January 01, 2012, 03:12:18 PM by accludetuner
»
Logged
I can fit massive amounts of meat in my mouth!
My 748/916/996/998 SBK parts for sale!
HotIce
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 812
Re: Ducati ECU Tuning Resources
«
Reply #27 on:
January 01, 2012, 03:16:36 PM »
Did you try to upload your map?
Because, that's where the check-sum comes into place. It seems really strange that any firmware of that kind, allows you to drop an image into Flash/EPROM without any kind of validation. If not for anti-tempering, only for simple data verification.
Just to be clear, check-sum is not encryption, but validation, so the fact you can look at clear-text data does not mean that you will be able to push your edited image into the ECU (without compiling the proper check-sum field into the image file).
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accludetuner
Jennifer Connelly's boobs give me a raging
Full Member
Offline
Posts: 190
I AM NOT A MONSTER!
Re: Ducati ECU Tuning Resources
«
Reply #28 on:
January 01, 2012, 03:20:54 PM »
I have burned the stock bin to another chip, re-read that new chip to the computer, and then compared it against the original bin file and there were no conflicts. That's telling me no checksum. Again, this is for my 10+ year old ECU and the newer ones may be (and probably are) different.
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I can fit massive amounts of meat in my mouth!
My 748/916/996/998 SBK parts for sale!
nicholasv
New Member
Offline
Posts: 43
Re: Ducati ECU Tuning Resources
«
Reply #29 on:
January 01, 2012, 03:33:22 PM »
So right now I am most interested in the last generation, IAW5AM.
It looks like from tools (DucatiDiag, TuneECU, TuneBoy, Rexx ECU)
reading and writing the flash can be done via OBD commands.
I am very curious if anyone knows how these guys (especially the free tools) figured out what OBD PIDs and formats to use for various things.
From what I can tell from DucatiDiag, the MM IAW uses a proprietary mode 21 for most of the behavior.
So besides just trying every number you can and trying to reverse engineer things, I am hoping there is something quicker.
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