Some beginner's questions for Ducati Monster 620

[rorschach]

Hello. My first post here  

I'm interested in a stock Ducati Monster 620.(Euro versions-I'm from Europe, so sorry for my English)
But before i get one, i have some questions if someone could help me; i also like to know the tehnical stuff/details etc.

1) All 620 do not have an o2 sensor/lamda probe? Right?
2) All 620 regardless of year/version have this APTC clutch system?

3) If i upgrade the exhaust to a Termignoni, i understand that i have to ajust the Air/Fuel ratio. True?
How is it done?  

4) Regarding the front brakes; i see that that 2002-2004 years have 320mm discs with 4 piston caliper
Then 2005-2006 years have 300mm discs with 2 piston caliper. (and the Dark editions with the single disc)
So , '05-'06 years are still 'potent' ?..i mean it isn't a downgrade performance wise?

5) Will i have any problems of 'accommodation' ? my height is 1,87meters (i think 6' 13") and weight 65 kg ( ~143 pounds).
Sorry if it is a noob questions but i ask because i know that the stock Marzocchi front forks aren't ajustable ..and i don't know maybe i weight too less or my feet are too long (?) (din't have the chance to test one ..still bad weather here).

6) Any other potential 'problems' to the 'platform' ? I mean from what i read they are verry reliable (of course if took good care of them - belts, valve checks/ajustments etc

7) And a Vs.
7.1) Will a Monster 900i.e or a 1000i.e would be (much)better overall bikes vs the 620 ? I mean in handling, reliability (besides some tehnical extras) etc?
7.2) For example the engine of the 1000i.e i see they have dual sparks. Are they reliable?
7.3) What about a 695 ? Is it true that there are some 'hiccups' from the engine because of the lamda probe? if true, what can be done, new ECU etc?

8.) Is it true that Ducati publish the hp/tq figures at the wheel? vs at the crank like it is usually done?


Maybe worth mentioning that when i first saw a Monster a just fell in love.
It was the red(tank) red(frame) black(wheells) color combo.  

Then when i 'found out' about what heritage and pedigree the brand has and it is the Ferrari of the bike world-in every aspect (and i'm a car/machines/tehnical/detail freak ..you name it) .. oh boy oh boy i said.
I must have one. Don't want/interested in any other bike.

I mean i look at my friend's Yamaha R1 2002 ..and see that on the 620 the brakes are the same diameter, even bigger for the 620 and they are Brembo, upside down forks, trellis frame, desmodronic, the superb power/torque delivery of V2 'hearts' etc. all from racing (they have them from, what, '93 ? as stock equipment -wow) ..then symbiosis of the looks, the sound, the technology and i understand they handle like a dream ..aaah  

I din't ever rode one and i know i must have one.

Thanks for listening. Any imput is of great help.

[zarn02]

2) All 620 regardless of year/version have this APTC clutch system?

All 620s are wet-clutch. I'm not 100% that they're all APTC, but I would guess so.

3) If i upgrade the exhaust to a Termignoni, i understand that i have to ajust the Air/Fuel ratio. True?
How is it done?

Generally if you change out the exhaust but leave the intake alone you should be okay for air/fuel. Many people also chop the airbox lid, replace with pods, or otherwise open up the intake as well. If you do this, then you will need to change a/f. The most common method of modifying the a/f is with a Power Commander. It piggybacks onto the stock ECU.

5) Will i have any problems of 'accommodation' ? my height is 1,87meters (i think 6' 13") and weight 65 kg ( ~143 pounds).

I think you'll be fine. I'm about 6'2"/187cm myself. I think your weight is well within the range that the suspension comes set up for.

7) And a Vs.
7.1) Will a Monster 900i.e or a 1000i.e would be (much)better overall bikes vs the 620 ? I mean in handling, reliability (besides some tehnical extras) etc?
7.2) For example the engine of the 1000i.e i see they have dual sparks. Are they reliable?

The 900 and 1000 motors will have a dry clutch. The 900s didn't come with a slipper clutch from the factory, so you won't be able to ham-fist downshifts as much as with a slipper. I'm unsure if any of the 1000s came with a slipper.

The 1000 motors were dual-spark, and I believe the motors themselves were reliable. Lots of bikes had fueling issues however. Somewhere on the forum there's a gigantic thread dedicated to problems people had with surging, etc.

8.) Is it true that Ducati publish the hp/tq figures at the wheel? vs at the crank like it is usually done?

They used to publish wheel figures. They later succumbed to the marketing pressure and began publishing crank figures. I don't know when exactly this change occurred, though.

Hopefully this answered part of your questions. I'm sure someone will come along to fill in the ones I didn't know about, and correct me if I'm wrong.

[stopintime]

Welcome [moto]

More details here:

http://www.ducati.com/services/maintenance/index.do

http://www.ducati.com/bikes/archive/index.do

[mgrisham]

In 2004 the 620 Monster got 6 speeds. APTC (slipper) clutch didn't come until 2005, along with the first plastic (bad) gas tanks.

http://www.ducati.com/compare/index.do?

[Slide Panda]

4) Regarding the front brakes; i see that that 2002-2004 years have 320mm discs with 4 piston caliper
Then 2005-2006 years have 300mm discs with 2 piston caliper. (and the Dark editions with the single disc)
So , '05-'06 years are still 'potent' ?..i mean it isn't a downgrade performance wise?

The brakes that came in 2005 were capable, but not as good as the previous. More effort at the lever is required to generate the same brake forces - but it's not catastrophic or fear educing like my friends HD sportsters front brakes

5) Will i have any problems of 'accommodation' ? my height is 1,87meters (i think 6' 13") and weight 65 kg ( ~143 pounds).
Sorry if it is a noob questions but i ask because i know that the stock Marzocchi front forks aren't ajustable ..and i don't know maybe i weight too less or my feet are too long (?) (din't have the chance to test one ..still bad weather here).

You should be fine. IF you want a bit ore leg room you can swap a seat from another Monster on. The seat on 620s and 695 have less padding giving a lower saddle height.

6) Any other potential 'problems' to the 'platform' ? I mean from what i read they are verry reliable (of course if took good care of them - belts, valve checks/ajustments etc

2 valve air cooled Ducs are pretty simple machines. Given proper maintenance (and even without) the 620 is very reliable

7) And a Vs.
7.1) Will a Monster 900i.e or a 1000i.e would be (much)better overall bikes vs the 620 ? I mean in handling, reliability (besides some tehnical extras) etc?
7.2) For example the engine of the 1000i.e i see they have dual sparks. Are they reliable?
7.3) What about a 695 ? Is it true that there are some 'hiccups' from the engine because of the lamda probe? if true, what can be done, new ECU etc?

The 900 and 1000 did come with better suspension. So if the suspension is set up properly they will handle better than a 620. The 620 has very basic suspension with very limited adjustment possibilities.

There's a couple versions of the 1000 - the 1000 and the 1000DS. The 1000 was a single spark and seen on the Monster 1000. The Dual Spark (DS) was seen on the S2R1000 - So there's some important differences so be sure to ask about the right model.

The S2R 1000 saw problems with surging. The fix is pretty simple using an O2 sensor manipulator.

The 695 really isn't much different than the 620. The most noted problem people had with the 695 was that it ran hot due to lean factory fuel/air settings to meet emissions requirements.

The 900 and 1000 motors will have a dry clutch. The 900s didn't come with a slipper clutch from the factory, so you won't be able to ham-fist downshifts as much as with a slipper. I'm unsure if any of the 1000s came with a slipper.

No Monsters came with a slipper clutch as stock equipment. The ATPC clutch isn't even a full slipper slutch, but does have a lot of similar characteristics.

If you're a beginning rider a 620 will be a better selection. It's a more forgiving ride than the bigger monsters. Also if you're a beginner in Europe, you might not be allowed to ride the bigger displacement bikes for a bit. While in the US one can buy any displacement bike you want as, not matter how foolish it might be, I know many European countries have stricter controls on what you can ride as a beginner

[Howie]

Welcome and your English is excellent   I think pretty much all has been answered.  5 speed 620s do not have the APTC clutch if that is a major concern for you.  At least for now the plastic tank shouldn't be a problem for you since you can still avoid 10% ethanol fuel.  Hopefully you country does not follow our tragic mistake.  Do have a second party look at the bike. 

[rorschach]

Wow. Thanks a lot guys.   

Some last things if i may.

So 2004-5+ 620s have this ATPC. from what i read about it sounds very good.
Is it ? Is it worth to search for one with it ?
Will it last as longer as the regular ones?


Aha. So metal tank (15 L) an and then to plastic one (14 L). I'll ask also on local forums if there were any problems.
I think i preffer the metal one, in Europe they are also talking about ethanol but something like after 2012-2013.
Anyway, i can swap tanks if needed etc. , no ?


@ Sad panda

No problems about the legal limitations on bikes in my country.

I was asking about the M1000i.e 2003-2005, not the S2R.
So you say the M1000 is a normal single spark engine?
Here it says that it is dual spark. http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/photos/2005models/2005models-Ducati-Monster1000.htm
And on ducati.com it doesn's say.

Anyway, is the M1000i.e a reliable bike like the 620? 
I mean you say problems with the S2R ..but with the M1000?
From the schematics parts lists pdf i din't find a lambda probe.


And about the 900i.e. i like it that it is the original engine platform and i see that in the last year 2002 it came with the goodies from the S versions (from 2001): the fully ajustable front forks. So a 900 from 2001-2002, good bang for buck?


Am asking about these two (besides the 620) because i like that they look the same and to know that i have some options, maybe not as my first purchase, but as an upgrade.

Thankyou again.

[Twizted]

As far as I know all the 1000IE were DS engines. The S2R has the same engine but had surging issues, the IE didn't. I think they have a different ecu.

[Slide Panda]

Perhaps I was incorrect on the M1000 being a single spark - ooops.

As far as the APTC clutch lasting longer - that's not the intent of the system. The Adler Power Torque Plate clutch isn't designed to make the clutch last longer. It's there to help prevent the rear wheel locking up . Here's part of an article that says it well.

"The newly developed clutch -named the APTC (Adler Power Torque Plate Clutch) -used on the 2004 Monster 620 and 620 Dark is patented and designed by Adler, and developed according to precise specifications by the Ducati R&D Department. It is a clutch with follow-up torque: this means that the torque transmitted is always a function of the torque applied to the device.

This feature has made it possible to dramatically reduce effort required to disengage the clutch via the clutch lever, while still ensuring excellent operation and high dependability. Thanks to the APTC device, the torque transmitted is increased significantly compared to that of a conventional clutch, without having to increase the size of the clutch itself. Another important characteristic is that the system automatically limits back torque that is generated during heavy braking and down shifting, avoiding rear wheel skidding. In addition to these obvious advantages, the APTC clutch does not require did not require any adjustment or changes to the original clutch case or the primary drive system."
http://www.sportrider.com/bikes/2004/146_04_ducati_aptc_clutch/index.html

The M1000 was solid. The S2R1000 got a new ECU system that had issues with surging.

[csorin]

620 owner here.  I have an '04.  It's brilliant.  No, it doesn't have as much 'oomph' as a larger displacement bike, but it's still bloody fast for a beginner.  The '04 has the dual 320 discs (an upgrade that a lot of '06 620 and 695 owners pay for) and a metal tank (no worry about expansion).

It's my first bike, and I like that it's not too much, not too little.  I just rode a friend's Ninja 250 back from the dealership for him.  Although a good feeling bike, it was definitely short on the power side.  On the other hand, I also rode a friend's Triumph Speed Triple (1050cc).  I found it only had slightly more acceleration than my 620, and overall felt less involved.

My 620 has been reliable since the day I bought it.  It's been a year of riding almost everyday, and it has never failed to start.  I ride it to work, into the country for spirited weekend jaunts, and have taken a one day 300 mile trip to central Texas on it.  The bike is versatile while also being a great city commuter. 

Ducati's crazy maintenance costs might bring you into the fold of amateur motorcycle mechanics.  With the help of this forum, the factory service manual, and the Desmotimes manual, you'll be able to handle all services including the 6k mile valve check.

The bikes are easy to work on and good fun modding.  Whether you strip off the extras and go bare or add fairings and all sorts of bling, the 620 is a great little platform. 

So in short, do it!

[nomadwarmachine]

As the owner of a 2000 M900Sie, I think that these bikes deliver excellent "bang for the buck."  I actually blew up my first motor, which was more "bang" than I really wanted (and more bucks), but I have been really happy with this bike for years.

[rorschach]

Thanks again all of you for the imput.
Can't wait to get one.
A red(tank) red (frame) black (wheels) combo is my dream.
Acording to the site, only the last 2 years came with this combo.


And again for my curiosity:
------------------------

So the M1000i.e. was produced , according to ducati.com, for 3 years, 2003,2004,2005.
I compared all the years (standard version) and i see that the last year 05 has 94 hp & 94 Nm torque (+10 hp & torque more than '03-'04 )
http://img15.imageshack.us/i/72834630.jpg/

Is it true ? Why the difference? Different ECU? Typo ?
Anyone noticed that a '05 has more grunt than first years?


------------------------
And the Ducati 695.
From what i read it also has the surging problem (@ o2 sensor/lamda probe)
Does this affect the euro models?
If so, the permanent fix and not to worry about it (not affecting the engine, no warning lights in the dash etc) is to get a full new termi kit that also gives a different ECU ?

[gregrnel]

I absolutely love my '03 620! Just the right amount of power that makes it a great city bike. Reliable, fun, attention getting, easy clutch, and the list goes on ad on. Been riding for nearly 20 years and I personally do not have a want for more oomph, although i'd love to add a 748 to the stable

[rideserotta]

I have a 2005 620 and absolutely love it (red tank, red frame, black wheels). It has a great balance of power and handling. I commute on it in the city so I appreciate how easy it is to maneuver/handle.  And I get 50 miles per gallon or about 118 KM per liter. On my last interstate trip I got 66 miles per gallon / 115 KM per liter. Right now the mileage is the most important performance statistic for me. 

[gregrnel]

That is awesome mileage! I usually get around 45MPG with some flogging thrown in. I should try one tank where I ride like grammy and see what kind of mileage I can squeeze out of her.

I have a 2005 620 and absolutely love it (red tank, red frame, black wheels). It has a great balance of power and handling. I commute on it in the city so I appreciate how easy it is to maneuver/handle.  And I get 50 miles per gallon or about 118 KM per liter. On my last interstate trip I got 66 miles per gallon / 115 KM per liter. Right now the mileage is the most important performance statistic for me.