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Author Topic: Clip On Woes  (Read 12542 times)
Nomad
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« on: February 23, 2011, 03:09:53 AM »

So I just did a SBK Fork swap (916 forks) for my M900, with IMA triples.
I ordered the 3" rise woodcraft clipons, assuming I could mount them below the top triple.  Well that isn't going to work, the top triple doesn't allow for the proper angle of the clipon and they are pointed almost straight back.

When I mount them above the triple, they are way way too high, much higher than the stock bars.  So I'm assuming I need to exchange the 3" riser setup I bought for the zero rise as probably my best option.

My main question is this: In order to mount them above the triple, I need to raise the forks higher than they were on my OEM set.  From the bottom of my steering head to the top of my axle on my OEM set it was 47cm, in order to have enough of my fork above the top triple to mount my clipons, I have to raise them so that there is only 44cm between the steering head and the top of the axle.

Is this safe, will it cause any problems?  Anybody with experience in this please let me know if a good solution is to just go ahead and exchange the riser kit for the zero rise, or if I should think of some other options.

Thanks!
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« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2011, 06:22:38 AM »

That is quite a drop in the front and may make the bike too 'nervous' for you.

I raised the tubes on my bike about 1 inch (2.5 cm) and also raised the rear ride height and like the results.

If you have any adjustment on the hoop in the rear you could lower it some to compensate if the bike doesn't behave like you want, but IMO it isn't "dangerous".
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« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2011, 09:11:23 AM »

OK, I have some first hand here with respect to both IMA triples for Monsters and for clipons thereon.  Also, I have raised the forks in the triples from experimentation with what felt good (lowered the front end a smidge)

The IMA Monster triple clamps (MOD1 and MOD2) have the pinch bolt location/setup like the original Monster top triple clamps - two bolts perpendicular to the bike's centerline. Because of this, it protrudes forward of the fork. This allows the 98-99 era Monster fairing brackets to be attached (they use those two pinch bolts on each side). The IMA triples accommodate those fairing brackets by using the same bolt location as the Ducati triples (which I believe are the same from 94-01). This is contrasted with the SBK style triples, which typically have a single pinch bolt located much closer to the headstock, leaving a rounded profile matching the fork curvature on the outside of the triple clamp).

Original Monster Top Triple Shape:


SBK Shape:


The old school fairing and brackets I speak of:

The problem that I think you have run into is that most 53mm clipons are designed for SBK shaped upper triples in the way that the bar is mounted/oriented around the clipon "ring".

Personal findings:

- I had clipons with IMA triples with OEM Showa 3-way adjustable forks on my M900. My clipons were CycleCat brand designed for the Monster - with the 2.5" or so rise. That's the normal 50mm diameter. Doesn't really matter the boring diameter of the clipon with riser so much as where the riser was positioned on the clipon 'ring'. Pictures to demonstrate at very end.

- I switched to 998 Showa forks with ohlins internals. Instead of boring/shimming my IMA triples, I just ordered up another set since they are reasonably priced, and I was sure I'd find a use for the standard boring set. Since my bike was the older model, this meant I had to also change a bunch of stuff at the fork bottom as well (axle, brake caliper adapters, wheel, fender, etc).

I then needed to figure out some clipons for this system, since it was 53mm instead of 50mm. I had the option of finding a place to bore my clipons, or I could try to locate some 53mm clipons. I had some NCR clipons for the project that I could mount up - no rise, similar droop to the Ferracci clipons. I quickly realized that the 'droop' made the bar interfere with the pinch bolts on the top triple clamp because the bar is mounted on the front of the fork tube, rather than off the side like the Monster-specific CycleCats.

Boo. So I mounted them below the triple clamp. Its very aggressive in this posture, looks mean as hell, and puts lotsa weight on the front end and the stability feels fantastic. Advantage: You can still pick and choose the fork height in the triples so that your geometry is where you 'want' it, not determined by the various pieces and their interplay.



That's too extreme for many. After trying it, I do like it. But I would not ride this bike on a gentle-thrills low-speed long distance cruise. It would kill me.

Here's some findings of alternatives: I put the first set of IMA triples and forks on the fixxer-upper M900 I picked up. I got a standard Rizoma bar (22mm because I didn't get that top triple bored for tapered bars), and put the IMA riser-clamps on with that bar and noticed that it was actually a smidge lower than putting the 2.5" or so riser clipons above the top triple. Its not hunching over, but its nice and lower than the stock bars were. There's also bars that are "flatter" and get you even lower - more of a clipon result, especially if you were going to mount clipons with riser BELOW the triples.  Yeah, you are back to using a bar instead of clipons, but if you need reason to justify, a single aluminum bar is lighter than many brands of clipon brackets+bars.

Other findings: Monster specific clipons will work, but most don't come in 53mm boring. Note the difference between the bar mount orientation in the cyclecats, the speedymoto tall boys (only advertised in 50mm), and the normal SBK speedymoto clipons (no riser, 50mm or 53mm):

SM TB 50mm:

See how bar is perpendicular to ring, off of side (looks to be at approx 3 and 9 o'clock)?

SM SBK 50/53mm:

See how bar is mounted 'tangential' to ring at front? (12 o'clock bar mount)

CycleCat's installed - shows them cocked off to the side, bar coming out perpendicular rather than tangential to ring:


What would I like to do? (same thing I would do in your situation and may do myself): Call SpeedyMoto and have them make you a set of Tallboys in 53mm boring. If they won't do it, find somebody local to you who will, order them up and have them bored. Once installed, take pics and send them to SpeedyMoto and say "you guys should totally do this for customers".

Not only is this what I would suggest, Its probably what I will eventually do for mine.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2011, 09:22:00 AM by a m » Logged

junior varsity
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« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2011, 09:33:44 AM »

here goes some more picture thievery...

Compare how the bars "go in" on these, various models (DBR-13 and DBR-25) (correct for Monsters/IMA and you):




to where these would locate the bar (incorrect for you):



Hopefully this is helpful for you.

The last thing I can suggest for you (though it cost the same-ish as getting some clipons that will work for you) is to contact Patrick at IMA and ask him if he will machine up a special "MOD4" upper triple for your Monster with 53mm boring (note that it will not have the mounts you may be accustomed to, such as gauge mounts, as it is designed for SBKs like the 748-998, 848, 1*98, S1000RR, GSXR, R1/R6, RC8R etc)
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« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2011, 10:59:33 AM »

Picture of my very last suggestion - the MOD4 for Monster alternative:



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« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2011, 12:34:28 AM »

Wow, thanks for the responses, especially a m, much appreciated that you put that much time into it!  I'll have to think about this a bit now.  Racing the clock to get everything back together so I can get a full season of riding in!
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junior varsity
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« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2011, 06:49:39 AM »

Nbd. I really like those guys at IMA - they are stand up guys and love bikes. I have the first MOD4 top triple coming to the US! (and among the first adapted for use on a monster).

Perhaps your most straightforward, lose-no-features approach is the SpeedyMoto clip ons (tall boys) bored for 53mm. If you don't have time to make the call today, perhaps I will, and check for "group" rate on getting a few done or an option available. RichD here in DFW now has tools to "make big holes" if we need a third party to do it
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« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2011, 04:04:23 AM »

xarlo, would love to see a pic of how the Risers interfere with your triple, though I can sorta picture
it. AM's pics of the triples show a difference but it's subtle. I presume
the riser has to be positioned to the outside, pointing the bars back?

Certainly the issue of mixing and matching pieces parts is highlighted.
A M awsome of you to share your experience.
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junior varsity
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« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2011, 08:11:25 AM »

wait, i just realized that i have both types of triples so I can show this! I have Vortex SBK style triples (though without rise) and the CycleCats (monster style, with rise)

I can put both on a single fork tube to show you and take a picture. That will help immensely.

Got word back from SpeedyMoto - they do not believe there is enough material to bore out to 53mm. bummer.

In the pictures, I will also show another issue that arrises with some clipons - how the bar pinch bolts are oriented in that it affects the mounting of your brake/clutch master cylinders because of bleed nipples.  More pics before noon!
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« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2011, 06:18:00 PM »





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junior varsity
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« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2011, 02:19:35 PM »

Don't know if those pics help....


but i want to post a teaser pic of my new top triple from IMA made to work with my existing MOD1 lower triple (30mm offset, SBK Showa forks - 53mm dia):




gotta figure out me some gauges now...
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