powered by:
April 17, 2024, 03:16:01 PM
Welcome,
Guest
. Please
login
or
register
.
1 Hour
1 Day
1 Week
1 Month
Forever
Login with username, password and session length
News
:
Welcome to the DMF
Home
Help
Search
Login
Register
Discussion Boards
Introduce Yourself
FAQs and Policies
General Monster Forum
Remembering our friends...in Memorium
Riding Techniques
Tutorials
Tech
Accessories & Mods
Gear
Racing & Trackdays
Stolen Motorcycles
No Moto Content
Board Tech Issues
Local Club Boards
BOMb
RCP
Sponsors
Valley Desmo Service
California Cycleworks
MotorcycleGear.Com
Monsterparts
Minor Sponsor Board
Sponsor Info
Flea Market
Monsters for Sale
Monsters Wanted
Other Bikes
Parts for Sale
Parts Wanted
Gear for Sale
Misc for Sale/Wanted
Ducati Monster Forum
>
Moto Board
>
Tech
(Moderator:
Speeddog
) >
14/42 (1:3 ratio) gearing harmonics, integer gear ratios, etc...
Pages: [
1
]
2
Go Down
« previous
next »
Print
Author
Topic: 14/42 (1:3 ratio) gearing harmonics, integer gear ratios, etc... (Read 10331 times)
victor441
Full Member
Offline
Posts: 137
14/42 (1:3 ratio) gearing harmonics, integer gear ratios, etc...
«
on:
November 19, 2010, 06:30:52 PM »
changed my front cog to 14 soon after I bought my M800 and didn't know at the time that integer "hunting" gear ratios are not desirable for the final drive due to harmonics and uneven wear on the countershaft sprocket...changed the cogs and chain recently and went with 15/44 and a 104 link chain this time which gives nearly the same ratio (15/45 would not be good, also an even ratio...15/46 would be OK, etc) Anyway, from what I've read and experienced the common 14t mod is not a good idea for bikes with 42t in back (Monster 695 and 800 and some other Ducatis), especially since the number of chain links (102) is also divisible by 3...the same teeth and links will mesh regularly
«
Last Edit: November 20, 2010, 02:20:16 PM by victor441
»
Logged
Speeddog
West Valley Flatlander
Flounder-Administrator
Post Whore
Offline
Posts: 14813
RIP Nicky
Re: 14/42 (1:3 ratio) gearing harmonics, even gear ratios, etc...
«
Reply #1 on:
November 19, 2010, 07:49:19 PM »
Did you notice a difference with the 15/44 over the 14/42?
Logged
- - - - - Valley Desmo Service - - - - -
Reseda, CA
(951) 640-8908
~~~ "We've rearranged the deck chairs, refilled the champagne glasses, and the band sounds great. This is fine." - Alberto Puig ~~~
Howie
Post Whore
Offline
Posts: 16845
Re: 14/42 (1:3 ratio) gearing harmonics, even gear ratios, etc...
«
Reply #2 on:
November 19, 2010, 08:19:54 PM »
Were you having a vibration problem? in theory hunting is better, in practice maintenance and riding conditions make more of a difference. If your set up is truly non hunting do any work that affects the chain/sprocket theoretically you should mark the chain and sprockets to avoid noise and vibration problems. The good news is the chain turns the set up into partial hunting so you still have a random pattern. OOPS! I was thinking 104 links which would make it partial hunting.
«
Last Edit: November 19, 2010, 08:25:40 PM by howie
»
Logged
battlecry
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 669
On a silver black phantom bike...
Re: 14/42 (1:3 ratio) gearing harmonics, even gear ratios, etc...
«
Reply #3 on:
November 20, 2010, 05:38:37 AM »
You can rotate the front 14 sprocket one tooth every 3000 miles to even the wear.
Logged
Howie
Post Whore
Offline
Posts: 16845
Re: 14/42 (1:3 ratio) gearing harmonics, even gear ratios, etc...
«
Reply #4 on:
November 20, 2010, 07:36:45 AM »
Quote from: battlecry on November 20, 2010, 05:38:37 AM
You can rotate the front 14 sprocket one tooth every 3000 miles to even the wear.
Logged
victor441
Full Member
Offline
Posts: 137
Re: 14/42 (1:3 ratio) gearing harmonics, even gear ratios, etc...
«
Reply #5 on:
November 20, 2010, 08:55:18 AM »
Quote from: Speeddog on November 19, 2010, 07:49:19 PM
Did you notice a difference with the 15/44 over the 14/42?
definitely quieter and smoother than 14/42 was, but everything is brand new now so I can't say for sure that tht is due to the new ratio and longer chain.....but the wear differnces from chain sideplates are obvious looking at my old 15 and 14 cogs that ran with the original 42. It may well be that the mumber of links (102 = 34x3) combined with the integer ratio is more of a factor, but a bad overall combination in any case
Logged
victor441
Full Member
Offline
Posts: 137
Re: 14/42 (1:3 ratio) gearing harmonics, integer gear ratios, etc...
«
Reply #6 on:
November 02, 2011, 06:49:39 PM »
found a web site recently
http://www.gearingcommander.com/
that confirms what I experienced and gives some numbers on tooth/chain contact too....14/42/102 really is a bad combination
here are the numbers for 15/42/102, 14/42/102, and 15/44/104 Anyway, an interesting site to check out various gearing/chain setups prior to buying parts, well worth a look
Logged
bigiain
Flounder-Administrator
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 1478
Re: 14/42 (1:3 ratio) gearing harmonics, even gear ratios, etc...
«
Reply #7 on:
November 03, 2011, 04:09:30 AM »
Quote from: howie on November 19, 2010, 08:19:54 PM
... in theory hunting is better, in practice maintenance and riding conditions make more of a difference.
+1
I've run 14/42 gearing on my Monster for two sets of sprockets (and 4 chains), and wasn't able to detect any increase in wear or vibration.
I understand the argument and the idea behind it, but I've got at least a little bit of real world experience that says if there is any effect that that theory predicts, it's clearly small enough to be completely overshadowed by other factors...
I'd avoid integer ratios if it;s easy at the time, but if the shop's only got 42t rear sprockets, I'll just say "OK, gimme one of them this time" rather that wait for a 43 or 41...
big
Logged
my personal website
my less personal (I'd stop well short of calling it "professional") web site
bikepilot
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 994
Re: 14/42 (1:3 ratio) gearing harmonics, integer gear ratios, etc...
«
Reply #8 on:
November 04, 2011, 09:15:45 AM »
Another, probably larger effect is that the 15T gets the chain further away from the swinger and spreads the load over more teeth. I've found that larger sprockets tend to last longer and run smoother than smaller ones even when you don't have the integer issue.
Logged
2009 XB12XT
2006 Monster 620 (wife's)
1997 TL1000S
1975 Kawasaki H1 Mach III
2001 CR250R (CO do-it-all bike)
2000 XR650R (dez racer)
2003 KX100 (wife's)
1994 DR250SE (wife's/my city commuter)
bigiain
Flounder-Administrator
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 1478
Re: 14/42 (1:3 ratio) gearing harmonics, integer gear ratios, etc...
«
Reply #9 on:
November 04, 2011, 04:36:11 PM »
Quote from: bikepilot on November 04, 2011, 09:15:45 AM
Another, probably larger effect is that the 15T gets the chain further away from the swinger and spreads the load over more teeth. I've found that larger sprockets tend to last longer and run smoother than smaller ones even when you don't have the integer issue.
That's a good point, there's certainly some people who've experienced undue chain guide wear with a 14t front sprocket, often people with raised rear ride height, but at least some people have chimed in wi the problem wi stock ride heights.
If you've got a voice between, say, 14/43 and 15/46, the 15t combo is probably a bettere choice. I think the 14t option is suggested so often is because it can be done without changing the chain or rear sprocket, and that makes it super inexpensive to try.
Big
Logged
my personal website
my less personal (I'd stop well short of calling it "professional") web site
victor441
Full Member
Offline
Posts: 137
Re: 14/42 (1:3 ratio) gearing harmonics, even gear ratios, etc...
«
Reply #10 on:
November 15, 2011, 05:41:42 PM »
Quote from: bigiain on November 03, 2011, 04:09:30 AM
+1
I've run 14/42 gearing on my Monster for two sets of sprockets (and 4 chains), and wasn't able to detect any increase in wear or vibration.
I understand the argument and the idea behind it, but I've got at least a little bit of real world experience that says if there is any effect that that theory predicts, it's clearly small enough to be completely overshadowed by other factors...
I'd avoid integer ratios if it;s easy at the time, but if the shop's only got 42t rear sprockets, I'll just say "OK, gimme one of them this time" rather that wait for a 43 or 41...
big
In my case the stock chain length (102) was a big factor also, 14/42 (1:3) is not as bad w/ a length that is not a multiple of 3....this shows 14/42 w/ 102, 100, and 104 chains
«
Last Edit: November 15, 2011, 09:13:33 PM by victor441
»
Logged
stopintime
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 8928
S2R 800 '07
Re: 14/42 (1:3 ratio) gearing harmonics, integer gear ratios, etc...
«
Reply #11 on:
November 15, 2011, 07:07:31 PM »
Two examples of even number sprockets. 14/40
Logged
237,000 km/sixteen years - loving it
He Man
Post Whore
Offline
Posts: 11596
Re: 14/42 (1:3 ratio) gearing harmonics, integer gear ratios, etc...
«
Reply #12 on:
November 15, 2011, 09:23:24 PM »
from my experience runing odd and even, there is no difference...on a steel sprocket.
that image looks like an aluminum sprocket, which wears considerably faster. (much much much faster) than a steel.
ive got (on oem sprocket) about 17k with even wear running stock 15/41, and a steel aftermarket sprocket running 15/42 from 17k to now 30k.
Logged
2006 Ducati S2R1100 Yea.... stunttin like my daddy CHROMED OUT 1100!!!!
Check out my Latest Video! 05/13/2017 :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4xSA7KzEzU
victor441
Full Member
Offline
Posts: 137
Re: 14/42 (1:3 ratio) gearing harmonics, integer gear ratios, etc...
«
Reply #13 on:
November 15, 2011, 09:29:26 PM »
Quote from: He Man on November 15, 2011, 09:23:24 PM
from my experience runing odd and even, there is no difference...on a steel sprocket.
that image looks like an aluminum sprocket, which wears considerably faster. (much much much faster) than a steel.
ive got (on oem sprocket) about 17k with even wear running stock 15/41, and a steel aftermarket sprocket running 15/42 from 17k to now 30k.
one even sprocket is no problem....wear problems can occur (on steel or aluminum sprockets) when BOTH are even and especially if the chain length is also an integer multiple
check out
www.gearingcommander.com/base/gc_howto27.htm
this is how the CS sprocket wore with the 14/42/102 combination, similar to the photos above...
«
Last Edit: November 16, 2011, 01:03:17 PM by victor441
»
Logged
dbran1949
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 593
2007 S4RS Black Termis
Re: 14/42 (1:3 ratio) gearing harmonics, integer gear ratios, etc...
«
Reply #14 on:
November 16, 2011, 01:39:36 PM »
something I did a while ago, different sprocket combos sorted by ratio
Front Rear Ratio
15 38 2.533
15 39 2.600
15 40 2.667
14 38 2.714
15 41 2.733
14 39 2.786
15 42 2.800
14 40 2.857
15 43 2.867
14 41 2.929
15 44 2.933
15 45 3.000
14 42 3.000
15 46 3.067
14 43 3.071
15 47 3.133
14 44 3.143
15 48 3.200
14 45 3.214
15 49 3.267
14 46 3.286
15 50 3.333
14 47 3.357
14 48 3.429
14 49 3.500
14 50 3.571
Logged
Pages: [
1
]
2
Go Up
Print
« previous
next »
Jump to:
Please select a destination:
-----------------------------
Introductions
-----------------------------
=> Introduce Yourself
=> FAQs and Board Policies
-----------------------------
Moto Board
-----------------------------
=> General Monster Forum
=> In Memorium...Remembering our Friends
=> Riding Techniques
=> Tutorials
=> Tech
=> Accessories & Mods
=> Gear
=> Racing & Trackdays
=> Stolen Motorcycles
=> Random Cool Pics
-----------------------------
Kitchen Sink
-----------------------------
=> No Moto Content
===> Board Suggestions
===> Fixed Board Issues
-----------------------------
DMF Sponsors
-----------------------------
=> Valley Desmo Service
=> Ca-Cycleworks
=> New Enough.Com
=> Monsterparts
=> Minor Sponsors
=> Misc Info
-----------------------------
Local Clubs
-----------------------------
=> Monster Women
=> Ducati MOB
=> SoCal Monsters
=> CAM
=> OZ monsters
=> NorthWest
=> NEMHA
=> NYMMC
=> MHM
=> SoCO DOG
=> DFWM
=> MADDOG
=> MOCHA
=> THCM
=> AZDRA
=> M-ROC
=> Central Cal Monsters
=> DOCSF
=> MCMC
=> DDCM
=> DOCTOR
=> Hoosier Hooligans
=> OMHA
=> DOCIA
=> Rising Sun Ducatis
=> MCM
=> NMMR
=> MIA
=> Desmotropic
=> COW
=> MOTH
=> DesmOK
=> Bayou Country Ducati Riders
=> DeVal Mostro
=> Coastal Ducati Club
-----------------------------
Configurators and Calculators
-----------------------------
=> Valve Shim Calculator
Loading...
SimplePortal 2.1.1