Teach me about battery specs (non-OEM/ replacement battery research)

[erkishhorde]

The bike has been rough to start recently and I've been force to plug it in after nearly every ride otherwise it won't start the next day. The big downside of having the battery tender pigtails wired up to the battery is that it allows me to get negligent about checking the water levels on the stock Yuasa YB16AL-A2 battery. I pulled the battery to charge it today since I'm away from the house and there is no outlet in the parking garage where I'm staying and find that the water levels are VERY low. Oops.   Filled it up with some distilled water and it's charging now. Should be good to go by tomorrow.

This has gotten me back onto my research for a replacement battery. I found an interesting post about the batteries Ducati has used in the past on the speedzilla forums. Poster is a "Guest" but seems very well informed and knowledgeable.

For my own reference, the Yuasa YB16AL-A2 is 8"x2.625"x6.5"

The stock battery specification considers how much current is needed for a start, the range of operating temperatures, the reserve needed for repeated starts, and the charging system capacity. A larger capacity battery will be a lot kinder to your charging system.

The principal advantage of using a larger capacity battery is to be able to restart repeatedly. When you don't ride long enough to recharge fully between restarts, a larger capacity battery is an advantage. A lower capacity battery will need to be trickle-charged more often and the chance of a deep discharge (that reduces battery life) is greater with small capacity ones. Further, a battery's capacity drops when it gets cold so when you ride in cool weather, a smaller capacity battery will have an even smaller reserve for starting at low temperatures.

Consider also, that the early pre-1998 bikes have an alternator with a lower charging current output, so they'll take longer to fully recharge the battery. A prolonged 30 amp charging current is one contributing factor to why Ducati voltage regulator/rectifiers and stator wires fail prematurely.

In 2001, the bikes were fited with a revised starter motor gear ratio that drew less current and made it possible to start the bike using a smaller battery. The starter gearing on the early bikes are not well suited to the smaller batteries.

Standard battery 1994 - 2001 model years:

Yuasa YB16AL-A2 (16 AH, 200 CCA, 11.5 lbs.)

Standard battery 2001 - model years:

Yuasa YT12B-BS (10 AH, 125 CCA, 7.6 lbs.)


On the track, weight reduction is more important than these other considerations so the weight-saving battery-of-choice is the sealed and non-spillable AGM maintenance-free Yuasa YTZ7S. It's the same size as the later-year stock battery. The weight saving it offers is probably equivalent to $1000 in carbon fiber replacement parts, and about $3000 in titanium exhaust pipes and fasteners.

Yuasa YTZ7S (6 AH, 130 CCA, 4.6 lbs.)

On the street, reliable operation is of a higher concern to most of us, so consider the following maintenance-free batteries:

Fiamm-GS F19-12B (19 AH, 200 CCA)
GS Battery GT12B-4 (12 AH, 200 CCA, 10 lbs.)
Yuasa YTZ12S (11 AH, 210 CCA, 10 lbs.)
Power Source WP22-12B-4 (10 AH, 220 CCA, 15.5 lbs.)
Odyssey PC680MJ (19 AH, 280 CCA, 14.7 lbs.) (dry cell technology, my personal choice)

I installed a Odyssey PC680MJ in my 916 in May 2001. Stlll going strong.

So, what is an AH? Amps/hour? How about a CCA? I don't understand how that one factors into performance. My bike falls into the Pre-2001 model so if I take the post I found as being true, I've got the old alternator that still takes a lotta juice to turn. So if I'm looking for a replacement battery I'd want something closer to the 16AH, yes? I know that giving the bike more love will fix my water level problem but I like to reduce the amount of things I need to check all the time to reduce the chance of me forgetting to check something.

[ducatiz]

http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/tech/htup_0804_aftermarket_batteries_for_honda_relocation/what_is_cold_cranking_amps_cca.html

The CCA rating is the amount of amperage a brand-new, fully charged battery can output at 0 degrees F for a full 30 seconds while maintaining at least 7.2 volts. It goes without saying that the strain a battery undergoes during this test is much worse than what it would otherwise normally be subjected to. In other words, a car may need a certain number of cranking amps to start at 0 degrees F, yet this number is only 60 percent of what the battery's actual rating is at normal temps. As such, when choosing a car battery, consider not just the CCA rating but also the intended climate. Even those living in cold climates tend to store their vehicles during the winter. A lightweight, low CCA battery can be used the rest of the year in cases like these and hooked up to a battery-conditioning device the remainder of the time, but don't always take the CCA rating at face value. Swapping a battery is just as reasonable a winterizing effort as changing to snow tires.

[erkishhorde]

Alright, so I've figured out that the AH is amps/ hour and the CCA is cold cranking amps. The next question is what happens when either of these values is higher than the value for my stock battery? How much higher can I go w/o blowing something up and is it actually helpful to go bigger?

[Buckethead]

AH = Amp Hours, CCA = Cold Cranking Amps

CCA is a measure of how much "oomph" the battery applies to your starter. More amps = more power. They're called "Cold Cranking" because they're measured at a low ambient temperature (30 degrees F or something, I forget exactly what). I've got liquor on the brain, so think of this as the "proof" or "strength."

AH is a measure of how much energy the battery can deliver from "full" to "fully discharged." Back to the liquor analogy, this is how big a bottle you've got.

[erkishhorde]

Alright, so I've figured out that the AH is amps/ hour and the CCA is cold cranking amps. The next question is what happens when either of these values is higher than the value for my stock battery? How much higher can I go w/o blowing something up and is it actually helpful to go bigger?

Still haven't gotten an answer to this ^

but I've got another question. Has anybody gone with the with an Odyssey PC680 on the older monsters? It looks like it might be a bit wide. 

[Pedro-bot]

Still haven't gotten an answer to this ^

but I've got another question. Has anybody gone with the with an Odyssey PC680 on the older monsters? It looks like it might be a bit wide. 

I don't know the answer to the max CCA, AH you can go before causing harm to your moto.
But I know that this battery works fine. 
http://www.batteriesplus.com/product/33716-XTA12B--BS-Xtreme-Permaseal-Battery/558-CC/4191-Motorcycle-Batteries/125710-Ducati/Monster/750CC-1997-to-2002.aspx

[ducatiz]

Still haven't gotten an answer to this ^

but I've got another question. Has anybody gone with the with an Odyssey PC680 on the older monsters? It looks like it might be a bit wide. 

the mid 90s SS bikes used the same YB16AL-A2 battery.  I put the PC680 on my SS and it fit perfectly, it just has different style terminals so I had to make new wire ends.

THe only thing bad about it was that it is HEAVY.

I have poked around with other batteries.  If you don't live in a cold area or ride when it's below 40-45, then you probably don't need something with as much CCA

Also, if you upgrade your starter wires, you can actually use a smaller AH battery.  I upped the wires on my SS and the starter turned noticeably faster.

[Howie]

You can not have too many amp hours or CCAs  The starter motor pulls what it needs to turn your engine over.  The more amps available, the less the voltage drop.  Too small and the starter will not be able to turn the engine over fast enough in the cold.  The PC680 will fit and, though less powerful should work fine in your California climate.  Also, the AGM design is a plus.

[erkishhorde]

the mid 90s SS bikes used the same YB16AL-A2 battery.  I put the PC680 on my SS and it fit perfectly, it just has different style terminals so I had to make new wire ends.

THe only thing bad about it was that it is HEAVY.

I have poked around with other batteries.  If you don't live in a cold area or ride when it's below 40-45, then you probably don't need something with as much CCA

Also, if you upgrade your starter wires, you can actually use a smaller AH battery.  I upped the wires on my SS and the starter turned noticeably faster.

Did you use the regular PC680 or the slightly larger PC680MJ?

You can not have too many amp hours or CCAs  The starter motor pulls what it needs to turn your engine over.  The more amps available, the less the voltage drop.  Too small and the starter will not be able to turn the engine over fast enough in the cold.  The PC680 will fit and, though less powerful should work fine in your California climate.  Also, the AGM design is a plus.

Thanks, that's exactly the kind of answer I was looking for. Often when I go out to my friends' place and stay late at night the bike doesn't like to start.

[ducatiz]

Thanks, that's the kind of answer I wanted. Often when I go out to my friends' place and stay late at night the bike doesn't like to start.

Did you use the regular PC680 or the slightly larger PC680MJ?

it was the regular pc680.  it fit perfectly. 

[Howie]

Neither.  My bike is an '01 and uses a YT12B-BS.  I'm not familiar with the 680 MJ.  If it is the same case size and terminal configuration with more amp hours and or cold cranking amps, go for it.

I agree with ducatiz that new, upgraded cables can make a big difference.  The OEM cables were marginal, years of deterioration don't help.  Then again, my almost 10 year old bike with 57K on it with original cables and it starts in single digit temperatures (knocking wood).  The best way to tell if  your cables have deteriorated is by doing a voltage drop test.  Here is a  how to link.   http://www.aa1car.com/library/voltage_drop_testing.htm

[erkishhorde]

I replaced my cables with thicker stuff already. I wasn't sure how to crimp the ends so I just mashed on them with a pair of pliers.  I tugged on the ends a bit and they didn't come loose so I called it OK.

Thanks for all the helps, guys! I think I've found what I want for the holidays this year. 

[ducatiz]

I replaced my cables with thicker stuff already. I wasn't sure how to crimp the ends so I just mashed on them with a pair of pliers.  I tugged on the ends a bit and they didn't come loose so I called it OK.

Thanks for all the helps, guys! I think I've found what I want for the holidays this year. 

you should definitely do a voltage drop test.  the wires i bought were funky specialized wire with like 9kajillion strands and marine fittings swedged on with some kind of non-corrosive metal coating.  not saying your home job is bad, but it could be no better than the factory wire.

[erkishhorde]

you should definitely do a voltage drop test.  the wires i bought were funky specialized wire with like 9kajillion strands and marine fittings swedged on with some kind of non-corrosive metal coating.  not saying your home job is bad, but it could be no better than the factory wire.

Alright, that explanation from you link didn't help me a whole lot. Too many technical terms.  Care to lay it out for me in layman's terms? I do have a cheapy meter that I picked up from Harbor Freight but I'm not exactly sure on how to use it properly.

[J5]

bolied battery you say

i would also be checking the reg/rect when you get your new battery

http://www.electrosport.com/media/pdf/fault-finding-diagram.pdf