1100 start issue (compression)

[ggemelos]

I just got back from a 9 day, 4k mile trip on my six month old 09 1100 (I will post some pics in a bit).  The bike was great except for one event.  I spent the night at altitude near Glacier National Park.  The temperature got a bit low in the evening and the morning was still cold.  When I went to fire up the bike, I could hear the starter trying, but the bike would not start.  I remember reading about some start up issues on this forum before and tried turning the bike off and restarting it, but that did not work.  I knew the battery was fine since the bike had been ridden quite a bit in the past few days.  So I thought this might be some sort of compression issue, i.e. compression building up in one or both of the cylinders preventing the starter from turning over the engine.  I have had something like that happen on some dirt bikes in the past.  So I put the bike into high gear and pushed it a bit to have the engine turn over and open up the exhaust valves in each cylinder.  After doing that, I tried to start the bike again and sure enough it fired right up. 

In the past when this had happened on a bike, it was often due to a weak battery.  A combination of a cold morning and old battery that just did not have enough juice to kick the bike over with the trapped gas in the cylinders.  Since the bike is new, I doubt the battery is old.  I have heard that the stock battery is a bit small.  Has anyone had a similar issue before?  Has anyone tried to replace the stock battery with something more substantial?

[DucNaked]

 That's so funny. I Just got back from a long trip and the same thing happened to me. Same bike, I did the same thing as you to get it running. I don't think it has to do with altitude as I was at sea level. I've also had trouble with my bike stalling on downshifts.The dealer has been no help,  I've put in a letter to DNA and waiting for a reply. There is a thread someware about the hard starting issue, I'll search for it.

[M1100]

subscribing

[okpanic]

haven't had a real starting issue other than taking a few tries after sitting for a day or more. i have had the stalling prob, but am still working with the dealer on that. when mine has starting trouble, the starter kicks the engine over but it is like the fuel delivery isn't getting to the cylinders.

[rideawn]

I have the issue a few times per week where my 1100 won't fire right away (as it normally does).  I've been tracking the " M1100 starting issue " here and on the other board.  Chatter has seemed to die the last couple of months on this topic but I can't really find that there was a final solution.  Is anyone aware of a final fix?  The work around for me has been to turn the ignition off, wait a few seconds, turn it back on, and attempt to start.  The bike will generally fire as normal in 2-3 ignition cycle attempts.  I have a service appointment with my dealer soon for another part and they are going to investigate the starting as well.  Unfortunately based on others' experiences I don't expect them to find anything.  Any thoughts or information? 

[ggemelos]

I have the issue a few times per week where my 1100 won't fire right away (as it normally does).  I've been tracking the " M1100 starting issue " here and on the other board.  Chatter has seemed to die the last couple of months on this topic but I can't really find that there was a final solution.  Is anyone aware of a final fix?  The work around for me has been to turn the ignition off, wait a few seconds, turn it back on, and attempt to start.  The bike will generally fire as normal in 2-3 ignition cycle attempts.  I have a service appointment with my dealer soon for another part and they are going to investigate the starting as well.  Unfortunately based on others' experiences I don't expect them to find anything.  Any thoughts or information? 

I don't think what I experienced was the same thing you are describing.  I tried the cycle the bike on and off to get it to fire, as per the posts on this forum, but without any luck.  It wasn't until I pushed the bike through a few cycles of the engine that the bike fired right up.  This was the only time I have had an issue starting the bike.  I spoke with a service manager at my local shop about it.  I asked him if he thinks a more powerful battery might help.  He said that he never heard of the issue I was describing, but that Ducati was notorious for putting underpowered batteries into their bikes.  His only warning was that if I replaced the battery with a larger one with a higher current rating, I might end up frying some electronics during a hard startup, i.e. a startup where the bike does not turn over right away and the battery keeps sending a large current through.  I guess that makes sense, but I was mostly thinking of replacing the battery with one that could supply the same current for longer than the stock.  Being that I do not know much about batteries, I am not sure what I am saying makes any sense.   

[DucNaked]

+1
I cycled mine on and off at least a dozen times. She cranked and cranked, but would not start. Not even a sputter, it was like it had no fuel to combust. I really believe it's an ECU problem. I still haven't heard back from Ducati and I doubt they have a solution. I've order a Rexxer tuning unit to flash my spare computer, I hope this solves my issues. If it doesn't it will at least remove my flapper valve and o2 sensors and fatten up the map.

[okpanic]

The dealership told me that until they can replicate the problem in the shop, ducati won't let them tare things apart under warranty. So while I am on vacation in Mexico, I am leaving the bike at the dealership so they can try it in the morning starts which is when my problems usually happen.

[DucNaked]

Made a stop at the dealer to pick up some oil and the owner came out to talk to me. I think he's been in contact with ducati about my problem. He actually was with another customer and excused himself and came right over. He said Ducati has reports of problems like ours and more than likely base ecu related. There are things they can try and will be covered under warranty.

[rideawn]

Good to know there are things they can try as I'm going to really push.  I also emailed the dealer Service Writer and Service Manager information about what others have tried and been through to help them better understand what is going on and what has been done.  They were previously "unaware" of this, which is interesting to me. 

[rideawn]

Dealer tech was aware of the issue but could not re-produce the issue on the bench.  However a test rider was able to re-produce the issue.  They are telling me my exhaust is making the bike to lean, right after telling me it is running correctly per specifications    They did not sound sure as they recommended I have a quick thumb and wrist approach to quickly blip the throttle after the bike begins to fire.  I said please talk to the regional Ducati rep to see what they are doing for the larger concern beyond my bike; and to also have my bike noted as having issues in case this ever develops into a larger failure of some sort on the bike.  More to come. 

[Nxtr6]

09 1100S was having the same issues Hard Starts and dying while down shifting. I talked with the Dealer Tech he told me to do the 3 key recycle and DO NOT touch throttle during procedure... I,ll be damned it works, but the ecu has to relearn from scratch so you may end up with a few downshift stalls, during the relearn...

separate but related issue, was at the dealer trying to sort out an oil weep on the stator cover for the second time and when finished, tech ran it in the shop with fan setup trying to get it to weep, when finished thinking all was good I tried to get it to start, and it flat out refused... tried the 3 key re and the tech tried still nothing. ended up have to get it reflashed. not sure if it was a new flash but it has been nearly two weeks and no problems...

My personal feeling is that it is a heat (I read the op's) vapor lock issue. I used to own a Buell 1125R and went through... man that's a whole story (Go Buell / FHD) in itself lets just say I took the long way around to the world of Ducati... Anyhow the Buells used to have their fuel pumps cycle for some times 20 to 30 minutes after shut down in an effort to prevent vapor lock, plus they vented gas fumes coupled with heat and cooling would condense and drip raw fuel on the floor... I digress I am hoping that I can finish saving up for the termi and race ECU, a/f  combo which may just eliminate this issue, or Ducati will come up with a fix...

Either way, it don't mean nothing since I still can t get rid of this SEG since first ride this past May... Hey, it has a few quirks  and weeps (still not fixed) but this is by far the best not to forget funnest motorcycle I have ever owned, this just reaffirms why I love to ride...

V/R,
Nick 

[Hankyb3]

Please excuse a newbie, but what is the 3 key recycle?

[Nxtr6]

Please excuse a newbie, but what is the 3 key recycle?

I am a nooB to the world of Ducati as well, and I am sure there is a different name for it, I have been told by the dealership tech that this is built into the ecu to do a simple ecu reset, I can neither confirm or deny it's validity, but I know it has worked for me in the past.

V/R,
Nick

[Hankyb3]

How do you do it?!