It's happened again...guide(s) shot

[moto-zen]

One possibility could be that the guides are not getting any/enough oil. This could be caused by a oil hole blockage in the rocker arm. Valve/valve guide clearance is only .001"-.003", so insufficient oil could cause your problem.

[Speeddog]

~SNIP~
Can anyone recommend a shop that I could ship the heads to for reconditioning?  I could disassemble and then ship them, or would consider paying to have the heads dis- and re-assembled.  Surely this is within the experience of some board member?  Thanks.

<raises hand>

[Mr Earl]

Thanks Speeddog - PM on the way

[Novelo]

Can anyone recommend a shop that I could ship the heads to for reconditioning?  I could disassemble and then ship them, or would consider paying to have the heads dis- and re-assembled.  Surely this is within the experience of some board member?  Thanks.

I recommend Ducshop pics of Marks work on my vertical head after my debauchery. You should give them a call although I think a few of them are out this week doing an AMA race in Daytona. Turn around was only a few days and by the time they get back your stuff should be getting there in the post. I took my head to them with everything in it minus valves and shims couldn't ask for anything better.
My handy work

Marks

[Mr Earl]

Thanks for the recommendation, but I just sent the heads to Speeddog today.  Took Ducpainter's tip about using Kibblewhite guides and having them all replaced - again .  <fingers crossed>

[ducatiz]

does anyone do SFL coatings on the valve guides?  i know they are (supposed to be) splash lubed but....

[chenzo9]

4,000 miles after a dealer-performed valve/guide/seal replacement, at least one of the valve guides (vertical exhaust) is shot.  Haven't checked the horizontal exhaust or vertical intake yet, horizontal intake seems tight.  This is really BS.  I ride pretty tame, the bike gets treated really well - can't understand why this is happening.

Anyway, I've written to DNA (again - they gave me the one-finger salute when I wrote to them 4,000 miles ago) and don't hold out much hope.  So I assume I'll be doing as much of this work as possible.  So my questions are:

Can I pull the heads myself? (assuming yes)
What prep is needed for machining?  Can I do all this myself?
Is there a source of better guides than the ones Ducati sources, both OEM and whatever crap they used for the repair work?
Is valve replacement mandatory?  (Got 4 new valves 4,000 miles ago)
Please offer any recommendations/tips/etc.
Any FHE/strong recommendations for a machine shop locally here in Denver, or elsewhere?

Is the M800 motor prone to this somehow?  Nothing I've read points to a systemic problem.

I have some experience with rebuilding engines and doing general auto mechanical work, and am comfortable with most aspects of wrenching.  Thanks for any guidance.

[chenzo9]

Hello,

I have a 2003 Monster 1000 DS engine. I only have 12K miles on it and I already need new valve guides. My question is If I get these valve guides replaced how long should they last. It gets really expensive getting these replaced every few years. This just doesnot seem right. Please help if you have any suggestions or answers. I would really appreciate it.

Thanks,
Vinnie

[ducpainter]

If you're going to replace guides don't get OEM guides.

Get them from KibbleWhite...http://valvetrain.kpmivalvetrain.com/category/ducati-motorcycle-valvetrain-components

[Raux]

There are a couple of places that use a special guide material that is much better, longer lasting and helps the bike perform better.

www.mbpducati.ca in quebec is one

www.italo-teilemarkt.de in Germany is another that I know of

they use different materials.

the German one is a harder material that is not an environmental hazard (during machining) like the MBP.

[Armor]

How do you know you need valve guides?

[alibaba]

A very large and well respected Ducati dealership sends all of its valve guide problems to a local machinist who was for over 30 years associated with one of the most famous tuners in the racing world.  I had the opportunity to discuss this Ducati valve guide problem with him and the following was his response.

For what it is worth  ......................

“Repairing Ducati valve guide failure has kept me in business the last few years.  The problem is not wear or burning oil but the valve sticking in the guide.  Especially the exhaust valve.  This is caused by valves with “waists” in them.
That is, the diameter of the valve is smaller (or waisted) just under the head than the rest of the valve stem.  When the valve opens, this narrower diameter leaves excess room for the flame front to enter the inside of the guide as well as the outside.  This excess heat causes the valve guide to not only expand externally, but to constrict internally.  This shrinkage causes the valve stem to stick in the guide.  “

(When you heat a material with a similar configuration to a valve guide it not only
expands the exterior but the inner diameter will shrink.)

“I have seen this problem on the M696 models, sometimes right off of the showroom floor.  For what ever reason, if this problem is going to occur
it usually happens in the first few thousand miles.  After 3,000 miles I should
be safe. 

The fix is to remove the guides and replace with a quality product like Kibble White and trim .100” off the bottom of the new guide.  That is the amount that
is exposed in the stock guide by the “waist” of the valve.  Now, the stem will completely fill the inside of the guide eliminating the flame front from entering
the guide and overheating it.”

[OT]

How much are these jobs costing you guys?  Mine need replacement and budgeting is necessary - thanks 

the German one is a harder material that is not an environmental hazard (during machining) like the MBP.

afaik - the beryllium (carcinogen) is only a hazard if you breathe in the dust for a long time - similar to asbestos.

[Raux]

afaik - the beryllium (carcinogen) is only a hazard if you breathe in the dust for a long time - similar to asbestos.

it needs special licenses and recovery procedure in Germany due to the dust, making it very expensive process here.


The post from Alibaba is VERY good information.
The guy from ITM has been sending the same information to Ducati about the shitty exhaust valve guides and has been blown off as well.

[Armor]

Hello,

I have a 2003 Monster 1000 DS engine. I only have 12K miles on it and I already need new valve guides. My question is If I get these valve guides replaced how long should they last. It gets really expensive getting these replaced every few years. This just doesnot seem right. Please help if you have any suggestions or answers. I would really appreciate it.

Thanks,
Vinnie

Vinne,
Why do you need the valve guides replaced?