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Author Topic: Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates  (Read 397607 times)
Raux
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« Reply #1215 on: December 06, 2010, 07:48:25 AM »

but now you've seen two types of material.
What do you think that means for the future?
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« Reply #1216 on: December 06, 2010, 09:03:25 AM »

On two totally diff models.  I don't think xlpe tanks can work on the older bikes ie multi and s2r.
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Raux
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« Reply #1217 on: December 06, 2010, 09:11:42 AM »

DP, do you know if the XLPE tanks are paintable?
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wantingaduc
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« Reply #1218 on: December 06, 2010, 09:23:48 AM »

I have a 2006 620 Monster, the cheapest bike you could buy back in the day. It has 6700 miles on it, is garage kept and is in perfect shape. I only use 93 octane gas from Shell. I take care of the bike as well if not better then most owners. I had my first swollen tank replaced about 14 months ago. Fortunately my dealership was cool about taking care of it. Now my replacement tank is doing the same thing. I contacted the dealership, “just bring the bike to us, we’ll take the pictures and contact Ducati, no problem.”
Is it a pain in the ass, yes. Should it still be happening, no. Is Ducati working to solve the problem, yes. But all things considered as long as they are standing behind the problem in all cases no matter of the warranty period or mileage or what not and they take care of it until the problem is solved, I’m cool with that. Shit happens. Remember guys, it’s a motorcycle; few of us are using them as a primary form of transportation. I don’t remember anyone saying that their tank suddenly started leaking fuel and caught fire burning their jewels and destroying the bike. It’s primarily a cosmetic problem. If we take this in perspective it’s not too bad is it.
I’m sure Ducati is rolling in Euros from all the product they sell here in the states, why don’t they just send us all carbon fiber replacement tanks. They can afford it why don’t we sue them to make them do what we want. Man I can’t stand that sentiment. And now they file a class action law suit? All the damn law suit does is makes it harder for companies in this country to do business. They are standing behind the product, why break their corporate balls on this.
I love my Duc, swollen tank and all and I would buy another one in a heart beat.
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« Reply #1219 on: December 06, 2010, 05:20:55 PM »

I don’t remember anyone saying that their tank suddenly started leaking fuel and caught fire burning their jewels and destroying the bike. It’s primarily a cosmetic problem.

Funny, my garage smells like gas as my fuel goes drip drip drip onto my exhaust, engine case and the floor. 

The fuel tank flange has deformed and pulled away from the fuel pump.

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« Reply #1220 on: December 06, 2010, 05:33:28 PM »

DP, do you know if the XLPE tanks are paintable?
Not specifically.

I've painted polyethylene, but IIRC it was an interior part and was with a vinyl based interior paint.

My experience has been that with an adhesion promoter most plastics can be painted, and with excellent appearance.

In the earlier days of automotive plastics we painted PP, which is about a step and a half above crude oil, and we finally got adhesion promoters that would work.

PEX or XLPE is not a particularly dirty plastic.

I'll grab a piece of tubing tomorrow and try it.

Remind me. Wink
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trpletme
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« Reply #1221 on: December 06, 2010, 05:58:05 PM »

"why don’t they just send us all carbon fiber replacement tanks."

The same thing will happen to the CF tanks.
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« Reply #1222 on: December 06, 2010, 06:08:18 PM »

I don’t remember anyone saying that their tank suddenly started leaking fuel and caught fire burning their jewels and destroying the bike. It’s primarily a cosmetic problem. If we take this in perspective it’s not too bad is it.

The deformation eventually leads to a leaking tank:

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/docservlet/Artemis/Public/Pursuits/2010/PE/INOA-PE10045-8595.PDF
Quote
Ducati is using a composite material in constructing fuel tanks on some motorcycle models. In some instances (the Sport Classic series, for example) the tank simply deforms but does not leak. However, leaks have been alleged in the subject fuel tanks when tank deformation compromises the o-ring seal between the tank and fuel pump. Some owners report a pooling of fuel below the bike and/or on the engine when this occurs.
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« Reply #1223 on: December 06, 2010, 07:35:12 PM »

I've been monitoring this whole thing, and am signed up on the list... my tank has definitely expanded, although definitely not to the severity of some others here. when i mentioned it to my dealer, they were hesitant to help me out as they had not heard anything yet. i didn't press the issue at that time, because my expansion was so minor...

my questions is, now that the NHTSA is involved, is there a possibility of a an actual recall in the near future??
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« Reply #1224 on: December 06, 2010, 07:55:36 PM »

My biggest concern is that this is an "investigation" and gubmint investigations often fail to discover any problems.  Witness the recent approval of e15 by the epa after studies showed "no problems".  In a clean laboratory setting with controlled conditions e10 might remain pure e10 with no water contamination to cause the problem.   
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Raux
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« Reply #1225 on: December 06, 2010, 10:07:31 PM »

Funny, my garage smells like gas as my fuel goes drip drip drip onto my exhaust, engine case and the floor. 

The fuel tank flange has deformed and pulled away from the fuel pump.


My opinion on yours is a heat situation not fuel.
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hillbillypolack
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« Reply #1226 on: December 07, 2010, 04:07:59 AM »


I love my Duc, swollen tank and all and I would buy another one in a heart beat.


I wish I could share that naievte. This is definitely my last Duc. Not from the tank issue specifically. But from requiring all the bits to make it ridable. Other bikes at similar price points don't require as much BS. Though I don't believe they are immune to tank deformation either.
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« Reply #1227 on: December 07, 2010, 04:24:12 AM »

That's your choice, I've owned plenty of bikes each with its own issues.  I liked them all but I've only loved my Ducatis.  Ducati riders in general are more educated, knowledgeable about riding and more worldly. 

How many Suzuki or Honda riders go out of their way to visit the factory?  Its just a difference that matters to me.  I enjoy almost anything on 2 wheels but Ducatis always give me something more.

Quirky tho they may be.
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« Reply #1228 on: December 07, 2010, 04:38:37 AM »

That's your choice, I've owned plenty of bikes each with its own issues.  I liked them all but I've only loved my Ducatis....  I enjoy almost anything on 2 wheels but Ducatis always give me something more.

Quirky tho they may be.
+1

but now you've seen two types of material. What do you think that means for the future?
On two totally diff models.
I'm confused.  Ducati is using a different material for M1100 fuel tanks in the USA than in some other markets.  Same model, same model year, different material.

My 09 M1100 fuel tank (non-US market)... made from XLPE (cross-linked polyethylene).


09 M1100 fuel tank (USA type)... made from PA (polyamide; aka nylon)


I'm now very curious to learn why Ducati manufactures the same fuel cell using different materials depending on the market destination.

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« Reply #1229 on: December 07, 2010, 05:04:06 AM »

I'm now very curious to learn why Ducati manufactures the same fuel cell using different materials depending on the market destination.

It has to be some legal reason.  My guess is that the US version has to be CARB (california) compliant.  It's a long explanation why we have two sets of emissions laws in the USA (Federal EPA and California ARB) but Cali is a huge market for bikes and no importer would ship bikes here without being Cali compliant.

That's why US bikes have the vapor emissions (charcoal) canister on them -- and the fuel tank must work with it.

Likewise, there may be some additional crash requirements which necessitate the nylon tank.  I know for a fact that all PE's (HDPE, XLPE) are less shatter resistant than nylon (which bounces).

...but this is all beer pub speculation.
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"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the air—these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.
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