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Author Topic: Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates  (Read 398087 times)
Bill in OKC
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« Reply #1005 on: November 17, 2010, 01:12:51 PM »

Just for sh$%s and giggles, I googled "nylon gasoline leak" and variants using fuel, gas etc. and came up with a lot of hits on automotive sites.  I *think* this might be a more widespread problem than just Ducati tanks...  lots of mysterious leaks in fuel pumps and fuel rail fittings involving nylon bits (at least the threads say they are nylon) - mostly older cars but some newer European cars too.  hmmmm  even some fires.  Some are theorizing it might be ethanol (water) but of course there is no proof.

FUEL RAIL LEAKS NHTSA Defect Investigation #EA04003

    * Status:
      RECALL »
    * Date Opened: February 03, 2004
    * Date Closed: April 23, 2004
    * Recall: Recall #04V110000

Component: Fuel System, Gasoline:Fuel Injection System:Fuel Rail*

Summary: On March 3, 2004, General Motors notified ODI that it was recalling approximately 94,000 MY 1995-97 Oldsmobile Aurora vehicles equipped with 4.0L V8 engines (RPO L47 - vin8 "C") to address concerns with underhood fuel leakage from cracked fuel rails and, in some of the vehicles, cracked fuel return lines. According to GM, the nylon tubing (PA12) used in the fuel rail construction in these vehicles may degrade and crack. GM's supplier attributed the cracking to the combined effects of heat, time, alcohol fuel, fuel pressure cycling, and design stresses.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2010, 01:34:10 PM by Bill in OKC » Logged

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« Reply #1006 on: November 17, 2010, 01:19:29 PM »

Just for sh$%s and giggles, I googled "nylon gasoline leak" and variants using fuel, gas etc. and came up with a lot of hits on automotive sites.  I *think* this might be a more widespread problem than just Ducati tanks...  lots of mysterious leaks in fuel pumps and fuel rail fittings involving nylon bits (at least the threads say they are nylon) - mostly older cars but some newer European cars too.  hmmmm  even some fires.  Some are theorizing it might be ethanol (water) but of course there is no proof.

Bill there are different types of nylon and some are bad about water some aren't.  PA6 just happens to be SUPERbad -- it absorbs water like crazy.

If you have a bad tank and are getting it replaced, and have the capability to drain it, pour hot water into the filler.  No more than half a gallon.  Your tank will increase in size by about 100% overnight.

If I had the capability of a stop-frame video I would set this up as I have a spare tank that I sent out for testing.  I was shocked to see how fast it blew up.  I drained it, and dried it and stuck a hose with flowing air into the filler -- and it's shrunk back now.
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« Reply #1007 on: November 17, 2010, 01:45:13 PM »

That would be something to see!  I need a beer - no something stronger lol.
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« Reply #1008 on: November 17, 2010, 01:45:32 PM »

My 696 tank warped and started leaking at the fuel pump fitting last August. Dealer approved the new tank under warranty immediately. What they don't tell you about is the back order on the tank. Took 2 friggin months for Ducati to ship a new tank. Wiped out my fall riding season. Cry

Luckily, mine didn't take that long.  I just got a call yesterday that the tank was in and it is getting installed today.

Total time from when I went in to get it initially looked at to driving with the new tank = 17 days
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« Reply #1009 on: November 17, 2010, 03:34:08 PM »

Given Ducati's funky shipping/parts setup, I think 2 months isn't crazy.  My Acid Yellow S2R tank took 4 months.  I wasn't surprised given the relative scarcity of the color -- the surface still smelt of VOCs
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« Reply #1010 on: November 17, 2010, 03:56:08 PM »

My bike was manufactured as a Dark, but then the tank swelled and leaked so I bought a new gloss black with white stripe replacement. Now the new tank is swelling. I took my bike to Ducpond a few weeks back and they're supposed to be applying for a replacement on my behalf but I haven't heard anything yet. Would I likely receive a Dark tank, or a gloss black one? The gloss black one doesn't fit the frame anymore and is growing close to the ignition, but it doesn't leak at least. My understanding is that the dealer will only keep one tank, and I am only eligible for one replacement. I'd really rather at this point have a red one with a white stripe. This way I could just dry the black one out and let it shrink back to its proper dimension while running the red tank, then when it swells up switch to the black tank. Then when the black tank swells up again I could go back to the red tank that I'd been drying out, etc. Back and forth like that, tricking myself into the perception that I get a new bike every year or so. Don't want to go back to a Dark though.
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« Reply #1011 on: November 17, 2010, 04:01:29 PM »

My bike was manufactured as a Dark, but then the tank swelled and leaked so I bought a new gloss black with white stripe replacement. Now the new tank is swelling. I took my bike to Ducpond a few weeks back and they're supposed to be applying for a replacement on my behalf but I haven't heard anything yet. Would I likely receive a Dark tank, or a gloss black one? The gloss black one doesn't fit the frame anymore and is growing close to the ignition, but it doesn't leak at least. My understanding is that the dealer will only keep one tank, and I am only eligible for one replacement. I'd really rather at this point have a red one with a white stripe. This way I could just dry the black one out and let it shrink back to its proper dimension while running the red tank, then when it swells up switch to the black tank. Then when the black tank swells up again I could go back to the red tank that I'd been drying out, etc. Back and forth like that, tricking myself into the perception that I get a new bike every year or so. Don't want to go back to a Dark though.
I think they are only able to replace what the bike was built with.
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« Reply #1012 on: November 17, 2010, 04:17:17 PM »

I think they are only able to replace what the bike was built with.

awww that's too bad boo Cry
be sending you a new tank to paint then
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« Reply #1013 on: November 17, 2010, 04:18:40 PM »

Bill there are different types of nylon and some are bad about water some aren't.  PA6 just happens to be SUPERbad -- it absorbs water like crazy.

If you have a bad tank and are getting it replaced, and have the capability to drain it, pour hot water into the filler.  No more than half a gallon.  Your tank will increase in size by about 100% overnight.

If I had the capability of a stop-frame video I would set this up as I have a spare tank that I sent out for testing.  I was shocked to see how fast it blew up.  I drained it, and dried it and stuck a hose with flowing air into the filler -- and it's shrunk back now.

your above mentioned test is the same technique we used to do back in the day to increase the fuel capacity on our dirt bikes

except once adding the hot water and letting it sit we would hit it with the air hose to help the expansion

one would think acerbis would understand this phenomenon
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« Reply #1014 on: November 17, 2010, 04:52:44 PM »

Ducati has been honoring requests for alternate colours.  Talk to your dealer. 
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« Reply #1015 on: November 17, 2010, 06:18:02 PM »

I may have missed it but, do we know if the tank will be replaced outside of the 5 year emissions warranty?  Specifically if the tank has already been replaced.  Does the warranty reset from date of the new tank?
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« Reply #1016 on: November 17, 2010, 06:19:27 PM »

I may have missed it but, do we know if the tank will be replaced outside of the 5 year emissions warranty?  Specifically if the tank has already been replaced.  Does the warranty reset from date of the new tank?

Ducati has thus far replaced tanks regardless of warranty status, age, mileage, whether tank is painted or subsequent owner.  Some people have had 2 replacements already, I think a few have had 3.
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"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the air—these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.
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« Reply #1017 on: November 17, 2010, 06:21:41 PM »

your above mentioned test is the same technique we used to do back in the day to increase the fuel capacity on our dirt bikes

except once adding the hot water and letting it sit we would hit it with the air hose to help the expansion

one would think acerbis would understand this phenomenon


Those tanks are HDPE, which expands due to heat but not due to water absorption.  You are essentially re-molding the tank by heating and blowing.

Nylon PA6 will absorb water down to very cold temperatures, I don't know the bottom end limit, I ordered a document from the lab on it.  Once it absorbs water it apparently does two things:  1, becomes more elastic and 2, the 'cels' of nylon become bigger, hence the swelling.

Most plastic tanks on dirt bikes and cars are HDPE, not nylon.  Even the Acerbis tanks for dirt bikes are HDPE.
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« Reply #1018 on: November 17, 2010, 08:45:19 PM »

I have to ask:

Are the people who are having their tanks replaced, are your bikes garaged, or out in the elements, or ridden in the foul weather on a regular basis?

I wonder if people who have garaged bikes, that never ride in foul weather, are less likely to have a tank expand, than someone who has their bike sitting outside all year round.

Also, how many people from dry climates, like Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, and Nevada are needing to have their tanks replaced, vs people from wet areas, like NY, Michigan, New Hampshire, and Washington?

Plus, where do the multiple tank replaced people live, and do their bikes get garaged, live outside, ride in foul weather, etc?
Those ones I'm really curious about.

So far, I don't think I've noticed anyone from Colorado saying they've needed to replace a tank.
Just wondering...

BC.
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mjk778
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« Reply #1019 on: November 17, 2010, 08:56:53 PM »

NY Garaged  Never seen rain
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