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Author Topic: Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates  (Read 398074 times)
rustoric
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« Reply #810 on: September 09, 2010, 07:35:50 AM »

Went out and had a look at my new (to me) 695's tank, sure enough it was badly expanded, the right mount barely touches the frame and there's a 1/4 inch gap between the ignition and black cover.  I signed up for the group, filled out the survey and the NHTSA report.

I just got back from Ducati Miami who were super cool about it. Rudolf (think he was a manager) came out, took some pictures and had me fill out the form, if it's in stock they'll have it in about a week, if not 2-3.

Just wanted to thank Ducatiz and DMF or i probably wouldn't have known anything was wrong right past the warranty period
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« Reply #811 on: September 09, 2010, 08:21:10 AM »

Bike is in getting the tank replaced now, should have it back tomorrow. Of course it's one of the most beautiful riding days of the year...

One annoying thing is that I asked the dealer if I could have the tank for a few days before they put it on to coat it with the Caswell product. They said no, I explained that the issue is just going to happen again and that I'd like to avoid the hassle. They said that "the new tanks don't have the same problem".

I hate when people try to blow smoke up my ass. If they weren't so close I would have taken it somewhere else.
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« Reply #812 on: September 09, 2010, 08:27:59 AM »

Tha's just not right.
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Pinocchio
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« Reply #813 on: September 09, 2010, 10:51:14 AM »

Tell them to put just enough gas in it to get you home. Ride home. Remove tank. Empty tank. Allow to dry. Proceed to coat tank. Fit tank and refill with gas. Ride bike.
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Artful
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« Reply #814 on: September 09, 2010, 10:55:20 AM »

That's definitely the plan over the winter.

Is there a write-up on what all needs to be removed before coating?

*hits search button frantically*
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Old-Duckman
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« Reply #815 on: September 09, 2010, 12:06:42 PM »

That's definitely the plan over the winter.

Is there a write-up on what all needs to be removed before coating?

*hits search button frantically*

Ain't much there to remove. Once you get the tank off, which is very easy due to the quick release connestions and the clip that holds the pivot pin in, (Oh, I would first suggest that you siphon all of gas you can get out of the tank first before you do anything).

Remove the tank from the bike. Remove the fuel pump (the big circular thing you see on the bottom of your tank). Remove the gas cap. I would remove the two hoses on the bottom of the tank (not really needed but just gets them out of your way). That is it...Do your thing with the sealer.

If you read my post from the page before this one, I go over fairly well what I did and how it worked for me. It is not a difficult job at all, just time consuming. My biggest suggestion is to ignore the drywall screw step on the Caswell instructions. The Monster tank just has way too many areas where those pesky screws wanna get stuck.
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Greg
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« Reply #816 on: September 10, 2010, 11:58:47 AM »

Tank update - San Antonio - After KCI closed shop with my new tank "on order", I finally visited the new Ducati dealership in San Antonio. I explained the situation with KCI and that the tank had apparently been OK'ed for a replacement previously, so they wrote it up and took more pictures to submit to DNA. They said they would be in touch with me as soon as they heard back from DNA.
Hopefully this time I will get a new tank, as the old one is really swelling bad and it's a pregnant dog to unlatch the tank.

Just got a call back from the dealer and they said I have been approved, they will call me again once my tank comes in.  waytogo
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mitt
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« Reply #817 on: September 15, 2010, 05:13:25 AM »

Motorcycles are not the only vehicles having this pain.  My 2006 Nissan Xterra is in the shop for the 3rd time to address the NHTSA Campaign ID number :     10V075000

"NISSAN IS RECALLING CERTAIN MODEL YEAR 2006 AND MODEL YEAR 2008 FRONTIER, XTERRA AND PATHFINDER VEHICLES. THE MOLDED FUEL TANK SHELLS CAN DEFORM, CAUSING THE FUEL SENDER FLOAT ARM TO CONTACT AN EMBOSSMENT MOLDED INTO THE TANK SHELL CAUSING THE INSTRUMENT PANEL FUEL GAUGE TO SHOW THAT THE VEHICLE HAS APPROXIMATELY ONE QUARTER TANK WHEN THE FUEL TANK IS EMPTY.
Consequence:
THIS COULD CAUSE THE VEHICLE TO RUN OUT OF GAS AND STALL IN TRAFFIC, INCREASING THE RISK OF A CRASH.
Remedy:
DEALERS WILL REPLACE THE FUEL LEVEL SENDING UNIT INSIDE THE FUEL TANK WITH A NEW ONE THAT HAS A MODIFIED FLOAT ARM. THIS SERVICE WILL BE PERFORMED FREE OF CHARGE. THE SAFETY RECALL IS EXPECTED TO BEGIN ON OR BEFORE MARCH 22, 2010. OWNERS MAY CONTACT NISSAN AT 1-800-647-7261."


Nissan replacing the float arm is not treating the root cause of the tank problem, and I am getting very upset with it.  IMO, the tank is the problem and should be replaced, and it will probably deform again just like the Ducati tanks are doing.

On the upside, if enough people register on the NHTSA site for this problem, a real recall may be issued.

I pressed the dealer for a new Nissan tank under the emissions warranty, but he said it is not a major part, which jives with the EPA's definition, but upsets me that the fuel tank is not a major emissions part !?!

link to EPA's definition    http://www.epa.gov/oms/consumer/warr95fs.txt

mitt
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Artful
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« Reply #818 on: September 15, 2010, 05:16:06 AM »

Lol the tank is expanding and causing the float to fail... so their first reaction is to replace the float...  Huh?

In this circumstance DNA is coming up roses!
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« Reply #819 on: September 15, 2010, 08:26:28 AM »

Those tanks are multilayer HDPE, not PA6 nylon.  HDPE will warp but not due to water absorption like PA6.
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« Reply #820 on: September 15, 2010, 11:03:19 AM »

Still, tell me how the tank is not a "major emissions part" according the EPA?  A quick google lists all sorts of emissions considerations for steel VS plastic, plastic layer design, how the seams are sealed, gaskets and fittings etc, etc.

One of the basic emissions problems is fuel evaporation, and almost all plastic tanks evaporate gas - some significantly enough that they can't be used on ultra low emission vehicles.

mitt
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ducatiz
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« Reply #821 on: September 15, 2010, 11:29:29 AM »

Still, tell me how the tank is not a "major emissions part" according the EPA?  A quick google lists all sorts of emissions considerations for steel VS plastic, plastic layer design, how the seams are sealed, gaskets and fittings etc, etc.

One of the basic emissions problems is fuel evaporation, and almost all plastic tanks evaporate gas - some significantly enough that they can't be used on ultra low emission vehicles.

mitt

it's not because whatever EPA qualification they are using says its not.

it's not a logical definition, it's a legal one.
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mitt
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« Reply #822 on: September 15, 2010, 01:08:30 PM »

it's not because whatever EPA qualification they are using says its not.

Can you provide a link to what is legally a major emissions part?  According to my link above, the EPA defines it and the gas tank (including Ducati) should not be considered an emission part. 


" There are three specified major emission control components,
covered for the first 8 years or 80,000 miles of vehicle use on 1995
and newer vehicles:

          * Catalytic converters.

          * The electronic emissions control unit or computer (ECU).

          * The onboard emissions diagnostic device or computer (OBD)."

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ducatiz
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« Reply #823 on: September 15, 2010, 01:20:13 PM »

Can you provide a link to what is legally a major emissions part?  According to my link above, the EPA defines it and the gas tank (including Ducati) should not be considered an emission part.  


" There are three specified major emission control components,
covered for the first 8 years or 80,000 miles of vehicle use on 1995
and newer vehicles:

          * Catalytic converters.

          * The electronic emissions control unit or computer (ECU).

          * The onboard emissions diagnostic device or computer (OBD)."



It is specific to each vehicle, I don't know if it is by type, but if you look in your owner's manual, Ducati states it is.

I think I have a scan of the page somewhere.  It is the "USA Specific Warranty" page.

here is the txt:

Quote
United States Environmental Protection Agency and the
California Air Resources Board. Any part or parts replaced
under this warranty shall become the property of Ducati.
In the state of California only, emissions related warranted
parts are specifically defined by that state’s Emissions
Warranty Parts List. These warranted parts are: carburetor
and internal parts; intake manifold; fuel tank, fuel injection
system; spark advance mechanism; crankcase breather;
air cutoff valves; fuel tank cap for evaporative emission
controlled vehicles; oil filler cap; pressure control valve;
fuel/vapor separator; canister; igniters; breaker governors;
ignition coils; ignition wires; ignition points, condensers,
and spark plugs if failure occors prior to the first scheduled
replacement, and hoses, clamps, fittings and tubing used
directly in these parts.
Since emission related parts may
vary from model to model, certain models may not contain
all of these parts and certain models may contain
functionally equivalent parts.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2010, 01:25:15 PM by ducatiz » Logged

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"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the air—these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.
howie
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« Reply #824 on: September 15, 2010, 04:50:06 PM »

Still, tell me how the tank is not a "major emissions part" according the EPA?  A quick google lists all sorts of emissions considerations for steel VS plastic, plastic layer design, how the seams are sealed, gaskets and fittings etc, etc.

One of the basic emissions problems is fuel evaporation, and almost all plastic tanks evaporate gas - some significantly enough that they can't be used on ultra low emission vehicles whether covered by warranty or not..

mitt

Broken down to simple terms, the evaporative emissions test  is to put the vehicle in a big air tight container over a period of time and measure the amount of hydrocarbons that escaped the vehicle.  Under the limit, the car passes.  

If the EPA discovers an emissions problem with fuel tanks they can recall those vehicles whether covered by warranty or not.  
« Last Edit: September 15, 2010, 04:52:40 PM by howie » Logged

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