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Author Topic: Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates  (Read 398091 times)
Nekkid Tim
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« Reply #60 on: August 03, 2009, 06:33:25 AM »

They would have to have the molds made (one cost) and then get them EURO & DOT/EPA/NHTSA certified.  It would require a redesign of the pump and interior.   You can't just slap some sheet metal on and go.  The S2R tank is very different from the M900, etc.

Using the current plastic rotomolds, they have no setup or certification costs, just material and labor to remake tanks with better material. 

Far far far cheaper to remake plastic tanks.

I don't understand why they would have to redesign the pump or the interior.  I just transferred the pump from my stock steel 1000SS tank to a carbon kevlar ETI FuelCel on my track bike; that didn't require any changes at all.

As far as different versions go, my understanding is that it is the floor of the tank that is different for each plastic model, due to the different airbox configurations for the different motors.  The floor of the tank in a steel tank is a separate part from the rest of the tank.  So, as I said, Ducati makes three or four variants of the floor of the tank, and all the replacement tanks share the same upper/outer/side formed steel shell.  Have any M900 owners had this problem?  Any M620/695 owners?  Afaik, it is limited to S2R800/S2R1000/S4Rs models.

If Ducati makes a DIFFERENT plastic tank (no indication that they are) won't it also have to go through the same EURO & DOT/EPA/NHTSA certification process as a replacement steel tank would have to?  Won't DOT/EPA/NHTSA/TUV etc. have to sign off on any changes to the plastic used, regardless of whether the same mold is used or not?  Are there no material standards for fuel tank design and production?

If they don't make a different plastic tank, and just keep making the same tank, and replace the tanks that have grown/warped/bubbled with the exact same tank, won't they have a perpetual safety hazard as well as a disgruntled owner community to deal with?   What is cheaper in the long run?  That spending the money now to solve a well known problem with a well known and proven solution that will certainly end the anger and reassure the owner community that Ducati is looking out for them, or to continually dick around on a case by case basis, and actually replace materially deficient, extremely expensive components, with the EXACT SAME deficient assembly as a warranty "fix?"

I'm not saying that Ducati WILL make steel tanks, but it is certainly my opinion that they SHOULD make steel tanks to resolve what appears to be a major problem with their product on the market.  I've been buying Ducatis since 1986, and have owned about 15 of them (I have five right now), and this situation angers me to the point that I'm not at all certain that I'll be buying another one of their bikes in the future.  I'll certainly not buy another brand new one until this issue is properly resolved.

My tank is almost worn through from rubbing against the plastic housing of the ignition key. I think it is a clear safety hazard.  Practically speaking, it is also an annoyance and a hindrance to working on and maintaining the motorcycle.   To remove and replace the tank is an exercise in frustration and extra work. 

This past Saturday, DucPond Motorsports examined my tank, measured it, took notes on it, and took pictures of it, and will be submitting a warranty claim on my behalf.   I hope Ducati honors the warranty and replaces the tank.  I hope the replacement tank (if provided) doesn't start exhibiting the same problems as the original oem tank.  But I think it will.  I expect it to.

I'll probably end up commissioning some British artisan to pound out an aluminum alloy replacement tank, unless ETI FuelCel actually comes out with a carbon kevlar tank that works on the S4Rs model, in which case I'd  buy one of those to put this problem behind me.
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« Reply #61 on: August 03, 2009, 06:59:01 AM »

If Ducati makes a DIFFERENT plastic tank (no indication that they are) won't it also have to go through the same EURO & DOT/EPA/NHTSA certification process as a replacement steel tank would have to?  Won't DOT/EPA/NHTSA/TUV etc. have to sign off on any changes to the plastic used, regardless of whether the same mold is used or not?  Are there no material standards for fuel tank design and production?

No.  The issue for EPA/NHTSA is the venting.  Make a new tank means the venting has to be certified. The material is not the issue (rather, getting a new tank certified only requires basic crush testing for NHTSA but significant venting testing for EPA).
« Last Edit: August 05, 2009, 08:41:33 AM by shyster » Logged

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Nekkid Tim
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« Reply #62 on: August 03, 2009, 08:09:55 AM »

No.  The issue is the venting.  Make a new tank means the venting has to be certified. The material is not the issue.


I find that surprising.  Guess I'll have to educate myself on NHTSA/DOT/EPA/TUV European motorcycle tank venting rules and regulations.  Sigh.   The things one has to know to pursue a motorcycling hobby these days!
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« Reply #63 on: August 03, 2009, 10:30:19 AM »

I find that surprising.  Guess I'll have to educate myself on NHTSA/DOT/EPA/TUV European motorcycle tank venting rules and regulations.  Sigh.   The things one has to know to pursue a motorcycling hobby these days!

Law school isn't cheap!
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« Reply #64 on: August 03, 2009, 03:55:21 PM »

Just signed-up.  Thanks for doing this.

Stupid Ducati....
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« Reply #65 on: August 03, 2009, 04:11:55 PM »

Just signed-up.  Thanks for doing this.

Stupid Ducati....

I wouldn't lean too hard on Ducati for the mistake -- gasoline in Europe doesn't have ethanol (yet) and that is looking to be the big problem.  Ducati outsourced the tank manufacture, and I bet the maker (Ascerbis) is actually the culprit.  I would not be surprised if there is (or will be) some litigation on it between them.
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« Reply #66 on: August 04, 2009, 03:24:15 PM »

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes   

what?
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"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the air—these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.
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« Reply #67 on: August 05, 2009, 07:28:52 AM »

OK, now I know what you're talking about.  I should prob. delete my other posts..
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J.P.
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« Reply #68 on: August 07, 2009, 08:51:40 AM »

NHTSA complaints from monster owners re: fuel system so far:

Year       # reg.complaint
2005               2
2006               2
2007               3
2008               0
2009               0

Compared to the sport classic guys- 27 complaints for 2007 models, and 22 for 2006.
Guess that's why they're getting new designed/formulated tanks.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2009, 02:16:13 AM by J.P. » Logged

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ducatiz
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« Reply #69 on: August 07, 2009, 09:21:14 AM »

NHTSA complaints from monster owners re: fuel system so far:

Year       # reg.complaint
2005               1
2006               2
2007               3
2008               0
2009               0

Compared to the sport classic guys- 25 complaints for 2007 models alone.
Guess that's why they're getting new designed/formulated tanks.


where did you get this?  link?
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"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the air—these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.
Nekkid Tim
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« Reply #70 on: August 07, 2009, 10:24:20 AM »

NHTSA complaints from monster owners re: fuel system so far:

Year       # reg.complaint
2005               1
2006               2
2007               3
2008               0
2009               0

Compared to the sport classic guys- 25 complaints for 2007 models alone.
Guess that's why they're getting new designed/formulated tanks.


Much more likely because they are current, ongoing models.
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J.P.
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« Reply #71 on: August 07, 2009, 01:29:58 PM »

where did you get this?  link?
try: http://www.odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

Same pg. as the submit complaint one.
click on "search complaints"
it's a pain, as you need to search through each year, model.
Again- thanks for your attention in this matter. Still haven't heard back from the NHTSA inspectors.
Also I revised my count on my above post.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2009, 02:17:37 AM by J.P. » Logged

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Paegelow
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« Reply #72 on: August 08, 2009, 06:56:24 AM »

I just submitted my complaint...  I have a 2007 695, but it wasn't on the pulldown menu so I put in 2007 S2R1000
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ducatiz
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« Reply #73 on: August 08, 2009, 07:44:52 AM »

try: http://www.odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

Same pg. as the submit complaint one.
click on "search complaints"
it's a pain, as you need to search through each year, model.
Again- thanks for your attention in this matter. Still haven't heard back from the NHTSA inspectors.
Also I revised my count on my above post.

I saw the lookup now, thanks for offering that.  I'm going to post that up to the sign-up list as a reminder.  People need to get off their asses.

Re:  NHTSA, did you get a report number?  I got one and got an email from them with the report #
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"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the air—these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.
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« Reply #74 on: August 08, 2009, 09:47:57 AM »

yes-got a report # and e-mail some time ago.
Can't believe folks haven't done the online form yet.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2009, 09:55:36 AM by J.P. » Logged

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