Routinely unable to access first gear -- FIXED!!

[DucHead]

'05 S4R

I think this happened once before -- when the bike was under warranty.

Now routinely, I shift into first (or rather try to), and there's nothing there.  No first gear. 

If memory serves (and its not serving well, hence the question) I noticed something similar a few years ago just prior to a scheduled oil change.  When I removed the oil drain plug, there was a piece of spring attached to it.  I believe it was the shifter fork return spring.

Would inability to access first gear be a symptom of a broken shifter fork return spring?

Thanks,
  Dave

[Speeddog]

There are 2 springs on the shift mechanism.

One is the return spring, it puts the shift lever (and mechanism) back to 'center'.
It's big wire, approximately 3mm diameter.
If it fails, the shift lever will just stay up or down, depending on which end of the spring broke.
You can still shift if you push the lever back to 'center'.

The other spring keeps the shifter 'hook' engaged on the shift drum.
It's smaller wire, IIRC about 1mm diameter.
If it fails, generally you just can't shift, stuck in gear, or similar FUBAR behavior.

Time to pull the left sidecover off to see what's up.

[stopintime]

Is there a 7 teeth sprocket to make a new first gear  to hell with top speed

[DucHead]

There are 2 springs on the shift mechanism.

One is the return spring, it puts the shift lever (and mechanism) back to 'center'.
It's big wire, approximately 3mm diameter.
If it fails, the shift lever will just stay up or down, depending on which end of the spring broke.
You can still shift if you push the lever back to 'center'.

The other spring keeps the shifter 'hook' engaged on the shift drum.
It's smaller wire, IIRC about 1mm diameter.
If it fails, generally you just can't shift, stuck in gear, or similar FUBAR behavior.

Time to pull the left sidecover off to see what's up.

Yay.

Well, I was planning on cover removal anyway...

[Speeddog]

Addendum:

Check to make sure it's not your external shift mechanism that's keeping you out of 1st.
Not likely the cause, but it's only time invested to check.

Why are you going inside?

This may be fortuitous that it happened now, in that you may save some labor and hassle from occurring a week after you buttoned it up. 

If it is one of those springs, take the time to find the broken pieces.
They're not likely to find their way into a bad spot, but they're not 'digestible' either.
For that reason alone I'd not run the engine till it got sorted.

[bigiain]

Check to make sure it's not your external shift mechanism that's keeping you out of 1st.

+1 - especially if it's ever been down on the left side... The gear lever can get bent so it fouls on the tab on the sidestand that the spring attaches to, and you end up not being able to shift down...

big

[Jobu]

You actually got that thing out of first?   

I keed, I keed.

[DucHead]

Check to make sure it's not your external shift mechanism that's keeping you out of 1st.
Not likely the cause, but it's only time invested to check.

Why are you going inside?

This may be fortuitous that it happened now, in that you may save some labor and hassle from occurring a week after you buttoned it up. 

If it is one of those springs, take the time to find the broken pieces.
They're not likely to find their way into a bad spot, but they're not 'digestible' either.
For that reason alone I'd not run the engine till it got sorted.

I was going to remove the case anyway to have it powdercoated.

Neither spring is broken (so no pieces of metal to retrieve), and the fork return lever is aligned with the center of the drum.

I have yet to "run it through the gears."  I'd like a second pair of hands (and eyes) for that.

Will I be able to determine if the gears are all engaging with the flywheel in place?

+1 - especially if it's ever been down on the left side... The gear lever can get bent so it fouls on the tab on the sidestand that the spring attaches to, and you end up not being able to shift down...

The bike has never been down, but there is wear in the shifter hole through which the bolt that attaches it to the rearsets goes.  Consequently, there is a small amount of lateral play in the shifter. 

Would lateral play in the shifter cause problems downshifting to first gear only?

[Oldfisti]

When I switched my 04 S4R to GP shift and ditched the linkage, I never had a shifting problem again.

I know this prolly doesn't help but maybe something to think about in the future.

[DucHead]

So, I used the rear stand and rotated the wheel to shift back and forth between neutral and first.  It appears that occasionally the drum does not rotate far enough for first gear.   

Everything else looks fine.   

When I switched my 04 S4R to GP shift and ditched the linkage, I never had a shifting problem again.

I know this prolly doesn't help but maybe something to think about in the future.

I was thinking of this, but since it's not a possibility with the Bandit (sidestand in the way) I don't want to go that way.

[stopintime]

..... something obstructing the lever, so it's not travelling far/deep enough? ...... linkage too loose to push far enough? ...... lever adjusted so far from stock that it's not pushing in the "right" direction?

I have no idea, just trying to think with you Two minds better than one (sometimes )

[krista]

When you are perfectly in neutral, is the arm with the two "claws" centered on the shift drum? You might need to tweak those parts a little bit. I've done that before. I have also added a 2nd mounting hole to the shift arm on the shift shaft so that there is a shorter throw.

Also check the huge bolt on the back of the engine. It holds the spring and ball bearing that are the detent for the transmission.

Chris

[DucHead]

Thanks Chris.

Yes, the shift fork is centered, but I'll double check. I'm a little uncertain as to the direction of adjustment required, but I suppose as long as I know where I started it'll be OK. 

It's odd, because on some shifts into first it works fine, and on others not. 

Regardless, I'll check the bolt at the back of the engine.

When you are perfectly in neutral, is the arm with the two "claws" centered on the shift drum? You might need to tweak those parts a little bit. I've done that before. I have also added a 2nd mounting hole to the shift arm on the shift shaft so that there is a shorter throw.

Also check the huge bolt on the back of the engine. It holds the spring and ball bearing that are the detent for the transmission.

Chris

[ducpainter]

Thanks Chris.

Yes, the shift fork is centered, but I'll double check. I'm a little uncertain as to the direction of adjustment required, but I suppose as long as I know where I started it'll be OK. 

It's odd, because on some shifts into first it works fine, and on others not. 

Regardless, I'll check the bolt at the back of the engine.

I've heard of that peg that centers the arm loosening. It will look right, but when you go to shift it moves...because it's loose.

[DucHead]

I've heard of that peg that centers the arm loosening. It will look right, but when you go to shift it moves...because it's loose.

Thanks Nate.   The shift rod is held on with a circlip.  Do you mean that the retaining bolts (18 and 20) are loose?


BTW, is there a home-made alternative to the Ducati tool for holding the flywheel while loosening the flywheel nut?

Also, the shop manual says that I have to remove the clutch assembly to remove the flywheel/generator.  Is this right?