Ducati Monster Forum

So I'm not about to shell out over 100 dollars for someone to change my oil... I have done it before just not on my Monster. I have an 07' s4r testastretta and am just a little unsure of which brands for the oil and oil filters I should be looking at. If anyone has any good suggestions of what to look for and where, Autozone, schucks... etc. Thanks for the input and everyone stay safe this summer!

Mobil1 10w-40 moto (available at AutoZone) and K&N filter #153. Autozone can get that filter, they will just need to order it as they don't stock it on the shelves.

The Ducati filter and K&N are good and about on par. Ducatiz dissected a number of filters, run a search. The K&N has the bonus of having a stamped steel 'nut' on the bottom that allows one to use a normal wrench to install and remove it. Also that nut has holes for safety wire pre-drilled. So if you need to track prep - it saves hassles.

All this oil selection is BS. I go to walmart and buy Valvoline moto specific oil for 3.50 a quart. Change it every 3k and get a good filter. I suggest hi flo 153. Which is the EXACT same as the K&N without the nut at that bottom and about 33% cheaper.

You can get your oil change done for dirt cheap.

EDIT: Better yet, I just noticed you have an S4RT which means you have a dry clutch. If thats the case just go to walmart and get a 5 quart of mobil 1 synthetic. since your clutch is dry, just use the normal motor oil. Its not going to make a difference at all and its half the price of moto specific oil. for 25 bucks you could get enough oil for almost 2 oil changes.

I like what Sad Panda said. That's what I use.......avoid the Ducati Oil Filter at all costs, they seal poorly and don't have that ultra convenient nut that a K&N has.

That's a bit dramatic. I never had a leak from any filter. I've used a bunch of Ducati ones. I've always made sure the case surface is clean, put some old oil on the new filters seal. Doing that, never had a leak.

Mobil 1 15w-50 (3 quarts @ $7.00/quart) and a Fram Xtended Guard (Gold) XG3614 oil filter on my 2011 Monster 696.

Total cost less than 30 dollars, probably good for 2,500 - 3,000 miles but I change at around 2,000...

Mobil doesn't make 15w-50 as a moto oil as far as I know. Not a good idea to use non moto oil in a wet clutch bike. People have done it with the dry clutch bikes - but in wet clutch bikes it usually results in clutch slipping requiring replacement of the stack or a kero soak

Well, the 2 times I had the oil changed by the dealer, because it was in for scheduled maintenance anyway, both leaked after a couple weeks of riding. The last time, I'm glad I caught it right away as it was coming out at a pretty good clip.

Ya so my bike is a dry clutch, so Sad Panda and gregrnel  agree that the Mobil1 10w-40 moto (available at AutoZone) and K&N filter #153 are the best options? Thanks

So whats wrong with my option? I'm cheaper than both of those guys with the same performance even if you go with a K&N 153 instead of hi flo.

that's probably a function of the tech not putting the filter on right. the o-ring will bind if not lubed. 

i've never had a problem with a factory filter.  they are very sold and well built.

Guess I'll bite, and I have no intention of turning this into another religious "my oil versus yours" debate...

"Mobil doesn't make 15w-50 as a moto oil as far as I know. Not a good idea to use non moto oil in a wet clutch bike. People have done it with the dry clutch bikes - but in wet clutch bikes it usually results in clutch slipping requiring replacement of the stack or a kero soak"

Mobil 1 makes a 15w-50 synthetic motor oil and the zinc/phosphorous levels are decent for an air cooled motor.  Picked mine up at the base exchange, first found it at Wally World (here in Fort Worth, TX)...  All I have ridden are wet clutch bikes, mostly motocross, and we've used automotive oil for years without issue in the transmission/clutch.  I can guarantee you that my off road bike saw much harsher clutch abuse than your street bike will ever see without slippage using off the shelf automotive motor oils, mostly 10w-30...

I could not agree more with EEL, "All this oil selection is BS", many who ride Ducati's (among other bikes) have used a wide variety of motor oils, from dino to synthetic, Castrol to Shell Rotella, motorcycle specific and automotive.  The bottom line from my reading and experience is to change your oil regularly (within 2,000 miles) and you should not have a problem.  From my personal experience, viscosity selection, particularly in the summer months (for example, our heat wave currently underway in Texas) is helpful not only with respect to engine protection but shifting.  Rotella T Synthetic 5w-40 is a great oil, but my shifting improved significantly with a heavier viscosity.  By the way, the frequent oil changes protect from viscosity breakdown, which is likely the greatest issue facing any motorcycle engine which shares the engine oil with the clutch and transmission.  Air cooling places additional stress on the oil via the head which can regularly exceed 300 degrees fahrenheit during normal operation (which is why a synthetic motor oil is highly recommended for use in an air cooled engine, were my bike water cooled, it would be Rotella 15w-40 dino oil with a change every 1500 miles, cannot be beat at $25.00 for 2 1/2 gallons).

I'm not going to try it, but I would not be terribly surprised if nearly any motor oil in reasonable viscosity coupled with frequent oil changes would yield a decent service life for the engine..

I will agree with you on the Ducati filter, however.  For anyone who cares to argue differently, there is nothing "motorcycle specific" about the filter (I've done my research, the design was originally for a French Citroen 2CV, an older French automobile).  It seals poorly (in my opinion) and requires the "special tool" (read: not readily available here) to properly tighten.  There is another forum posting for alternate filters somewhere on here.

If you really want an alternative to the harder to find stock filter, purchase an adapter which changes the stock thread size from 16Mx1.5 to 3/4-16.  With this simple and cheap modification, you can use the following:

NAPA 1348
AC Delco PF-53
Fram - 3614
Mobile 1 - M1-102
Wix 51348
WalMart Super Tech ST-3614

All of these are readily available at any major auto parts retail outlet and Walmart.  I personally use the Fram Xtended Guard 3614 without issue on my Monster (flame suit on).  The best aspect of using a more common maintenance item is that you can find the filter anywhere which is great for touring, etc.

These filters will extend approximately 3/8 of an inch longer than stock but otherwise are compatible with the stock filter specifications...

Either this thread doesn't need to exist, or I completely wasted my time transcribing the hugely informative thread from TOB. [roll]

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=1912.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=1912.0)

You didn't waste your time.  Anyone with a question about oil or filters wouldn't be wasting time by reading the thread.  All are not created equal and price (or advert budget) isn't an accurate measure of quality.

  These air oil cooled motors should run full syn oli so you dont cook the stator .... very common to fry it up with  a poor oil choice .

except for the fact that they are all pieces of shit EXCEPT for the Mobil1 and the ACDelco.

the NAPA and Wix are the same filter, the walmart is a Champion ( [puke]) and I wouldn't put a fram (FIAMM) filter on anything but a lawnmower.

the ACDelco is actually a HiFlo

You can get HiFlo filters for $6-7 easily.

The following, "except for the fact that they are all pieces of shit", is a very subjective statement, I'll stand by the Fram Xtended Guard as being an excellent filter.  The bottom line to the original poster is do your research and make your best decision.  The sum of a series of views will yield the best answer to your question and there is plenty of information available of varying quality...  Furthermore, "piece of shit" carries the same weight as much of the advertising hype, so I would take it with a grain of salt.

I'm sure Fram must have been the recipient of a class action suit for all of the damaged engines it has been used on, unless it is actually not a bad filter, and those engineers must know something the casual reader does not, and there is not a slew of blown motors as a consequence of poor engineering...

By the way, the filters are not designed to outlast the engine...

It's not subjective.

Look at my sig line, I cut filters open as a hobby.

All of the Fram filters in the US use inferior filter paper.  The Fram filter which fits Ducatis has an element that is half the size of the better filters (i.e. Ducati factory, HiFlo or Baldwin), the back flow gasket is about 0.25mm thick, and the bypass spring was only 2 lbs as opposed to the factory required 9-12 lbs.

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=39672.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=39672.0)

and if you dont believe ducatiz's reviews, here are two other sites that have cut filters open and basically agree that the framm is crap

http://www.tobycreek.org/oil_filters/index.shtml (http://www.tobycreek.org/oil_filters/index.shtml)

http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/FilterStudy.html (http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/FilterStudy.html)

I always thought WIX was a decent filter...

no?

Your posting was one of the more informative resources I found for filter internals and I could not agree with you more on the Fram filter which is specifically mentioned for the Ducati, I would not put it on my bike, either.  The only area I find disagreement is the blanket statement that all Fram filters are "shit".

The much maligned "orange can" has served many an auto well.  I can personally attest to having put over 400,000 miles on the "orange can" in an automotive application without issue.  Although of seemingly poor construction, I consider it likely that the engineers at Fram considered the light duty automotive application and thus designed accordingly.  Were these engineers wrong, we would have observed a series of lawsuits as a consequence of engine degradation and/or failure.  Since we have not observed this, it becomes apparent that maybe those engineers are not so dumb after all...

You always get what you pay for, and the Fram "orange can" is a filter designed for the average driver, in my opinion.  In other words, you are not racing with it and additionally, changing your motor oil at regular intervals.

I believe you may have mis-read my post.  I am NOT using the Fram filter expressly stated for the Ducati (6019, 6074).  I am using the Fram Xtended Guard 3614.  This filter is built with:

- Synthetic filter media (2 ply)
- Steel end caps
- Silicone anti-drain back valve

When sourcing a filter for my bike, I wanted a filter that was relatively easy to find and somewhat inexpensive to support frequent oil changes, ie, 2,000 miles or less (I change the oil every 1,500 miles, could probably get by fine with 2,000 - 3,000), frequent oil changes being more important, in my opinion, than the latest and greatest $13.00 a quart oil at the dealership.

The specifications for the Xtended Guard 3614 (XG3614) are nearly identical to the stock Ducati filter in terms of bypass psi, inner and outer gasket diameter, etc.  They differ only in thread size (3/4-16 versus the Ducati M16x1.5 and the length.  The XG3614 being 3/8 of inch longer than the stock filter but nearly identical in length to the K&N 153, the K&N 153 being only slightly shorter than the XG3614.

Given this information, I purchased an $8.00 adapter which allowed me to use the XG3614 or similar if I desired.  The slightly longer length allowed the additional advantage of more filter area, as the K&N 153 is measured to the top of the nut and thus does not have the same media area.

Additionally, as I recall from high school auto shop class, oil filters over 20 years ago were manufactured with treated, pleated paper and have been for some time.  While we have seen the adoption of computers, fuel injection, and other improvements, the internal combustion engine is a relatively mature technology and while we love our bikes, to state they are "cutting edge" is somewhat of a misnomer, in my opinion.

I am not suggesting using "any old filter", but keeping things in perspective can allow us a more objective evaluation of what we use to maintain our machines, in other words, our engines are NOT going to last forever and we do NOT need to spend all of our money on high priced over marketed hype to keep them well running...

Furthermore, filter construction comprises much more than simply "steel end caps, silicone valves, etc".  Flow rates, media efficiency, etc.  In other words, if you are buying a filter to last 2,000 or 3,000 miles and the construction of a lower priced product performs well, why not?  This being stated, the Xtended Guard filter is one of the better constructed filters on the market right now.  I can purchase new ones at www.rockauto.com (http://www.rockauto.com) for less than $7.00 or if I am on a road trip, at Walmart for $9.00.  I tighten mine by hand and it does not leak, imagine that...

I am preparing for some serious flames with the photos, and have likely committed "Ducati Heresy" with the installation of this filter on my bike but if the color throws you off, the Mobil 1 is black, for the purists out there...

(http://i51.tinypic.com/akbvqa.jpg)

(http://i55.tinypic.com/16lxoi1.jpg)

(http://i51.tinypic.com/2drdwzs.jpg)

Just my thoughts...

OK, now you are talking.

I've never considered changing the spigot on the motor.  I knew it ~could~ be swapped, but given the availability of filters, I didn't consider it.

I have friends overseas who cannot easily get Ducati (or aftermarket pattern) filters and have done exactly what you have.  And for a very brief run, the Elefants had a different spigot using a filter with a 14mm thread, but nearly the identical canister which has caused no end of grief for people.

I'd give it an A+ for a mod.  It's not heresy at all.  My comments were limited to the filters I've dealt with and none of the Fram filters I've cut open were worth a flip.  I've not seen the Xtraguard filter because they don't source it for motorcycles -- in fact, I believe it is not made by Fiamm, I believe it's made by UFI.  I know Mobil1 filters are excellent and I use them on my cars.

But as far as your suggestion, I don't see why someone with limited or no access to Ducati filters wouldn't.  It's easy enough to spray some barbecue paint on a filter if the color offends.


I am an attorney, I am paid to be crass.  ;D

If you mean decent as in it doesn't deposit metal shavings into your motor, then yes.  It's not terrible, but it's not my choice.  I have one to slice open, but I've seen them before.  They are better than the Fram, but not as good as the PerfForm, so perhaps a C/C- grade on my scale.

Thanks for the A+, I was not sure how it would be received here...  I am in the military (19+ years) and have spent the majority of my time overseas, thus, you learn to be adaptable, and you learn from the folks you live with...

And one more note, being a "noob" to the Ducati ownership realm, I HIGHLY recommend replacement of the stock oil drain plug with a more conventional "hex" head design.  The 2011 696 (and possibly 796/1100) utilize a 12Mx1.5 thread for the drain plug, older models I believe are 14mm or 20mm (don't quote me on that).  I purchased a magnetic drain plug from the local motorcycle store for $9.00 and no longer worry about stripping the stock one...

And unless you are independently wealthy or just don't have the time, paying $100.00 to get the oil changed on your bike IS HERESY!

There are a couple of companies who make oil plug options like that, but most people like them flush with the motor.  I can see how the $9 hex head is useful, much harder to strip than a socket head.  I think someone makes a torx socket plug...  hmmm...

I've had Ducatis for a long time and still learn stuff though.   

I'm too lazy to do extended searches, but Fram filters (the US variety anyway) have been known to send paper through the engine because they have trouble withstanding the high Ducati oil pressures of around 70 PSI.  Why would one take the risk when so many alternatives exist?

Because the Xtended Guard series does not use the paper you are referring to, they are designed with a synthetic media, 2 ply in construction.  The Ducati pressures you are referring to are not necessarily high in the world of motor sports, furthermore, the pressure observed in the filter is only the differential which exists as a consequence of the filtering media (in other words, the filter never sees 70 psi, even at startup as you will only see higher pressures at higher loads and RPM's).  This is where the bypass comes into play should the filter become overly clogged, which hopefully does not happen...

We need to be careful with statements such as, "Fram filters (the US variety anyway) have been known to send paper through the engine".  Quantification is necessary before any sort of meaningful analysis is possible.  Consider this, according to the CDC (Center for Disease Control), 1 out of 270 male individuals on this board will likely acquire testicular cancer with a 1 in 5,000 chance of dying from it.  Granted, this is a fairly low rate, but you get the idea when you consider how many filters are sold in the US coupled with the propensity for people to complain when a failure occurs.  In other words, you do not hear about all of the filters which performed well during service, only the ones that failed.  Nearly ALL automotive oil filters until recently were manufactured with paper elements.  Did Fram cut some corners with their less expensive brands?  Probably.  Or probably not.  If you are a business owner and you know that the failure rate for your filters will be relatively low but you can make them with glue and fiber end caps which are less expensive than steel and silicone, you make them cheaper, and in China, of course...

You get what you inspect, and folks like Ducatiz are cutting the filters open and publishing their findings, thus placing pressure on Fram and others to produce a better filter, in other words, they are being LOOKED AT.  Thus, the improvement cycle begins again, and you have the XG series which is Fram's answer to the those seeking a higher end product.  Does that mean the old filters were garbage?  Maybe, maybe not.  The company made and sold many filters, engines put on many miles, and thanks to the lack of a medium of information exchange (the internet) product limitations and issues did not find their way onto the market forum if they existed in small numbers.  From a business stand point, it seems to me that the "lower end filters" will continue to be produced for those who just want an automotive oil filter which will last 3,000 - 5,000 miles.  For us, there will be a niche market of higher end filters, with a higher cost, of course.

I am actually somewhat optimistic.  The market demanded, and Fram responded.  Their high end filter costs around 2 1/2 times that of their basic filter, but in my opinion is of much higher quality and costs less than many of the other competing brands.  Thus, the market works after all!

And by the way, whoever at Fram dreamed up the coating which eases hand tightening was brillant!

There is little risk involved, particularly considering the Ducati filter IS AN AUTOMOTIVE FILTER.  Anyone here who has spent some time overseas (particularly Europe, although I did see one in Hong Kong...) remembers the Citroen brand of French vehicles.  A little research will reveal that this filter was used on these vehicles and is thus an automotive filter!

The specifications that must be checked are of course bypass setting, length, width, thread size, etc.  Provided these match, the filter SHOULD work without issue.

The intent behind the modification is the usage of a more commonly available filter, particularly if you are touring or would just like to ensure the greatest selection of filters.  If you live in Europe, finding a filter for this bike off the shelf is a simple affair, if you are touring in the US, good luck, you would most likely need to wait a day while they get one in.

While I love my bike, when it comes to maintenance, I enjoy keeping my options open, thus the mod.  Furthermore, I found that the stock Ducati filter leaked and required what I considered an excessive amount of torque to ensure proper sealing.  As for K&N, the filters run $13.00 at the local motorcycle outlet and I honestly do not believe they offer a significant advantage over other filters on the market.

In other words, if a simple, inexpensive mod allows me to use a better filter at nearly half the price along with a plentiful supply at any automotive parts store or Walmart, the common sense factor says do it...

just a clarification

the original Ducati filter (as used on the S2 and Mille) was the old Citroen 2CV filter.  It was a perfect choice because the biggest 2cv engine was around 600cc, and the pressure was about right.

Since then, the filter was re-engineered, but instead of making a whole new filter, they just updated the spec.  That's part of why there are about 10 generations of Ducati filters (part numbers).  Not just supplier changes (there have only been two suppliers, UFI and Athena) but flat-out differences.

The same filter is used on literally 100s of cars and motorcycles... UFI 23.105.00