Ducati Monster Forum

I disassembled the APTC wet clutch on my M695 today.  Some observations:

- The Ducati tools make this job incredibly simple.

- The big 32mm nut was only torqued on just past finger tight!  I think I was close to disaster on that one.  The irony is that I delayed the job until I got an electric impact wrench as a gift for Christmas.  Obviously it was not required in this case.

- The clutch plates showed very little wear at all (17k miles).  I could have easily re-used them, but I already bought new ones, so they will be replaced.  The manual does not speak to this, but should I soak the new plates in oil prior to use?

- No abnormal wear on any of the clutch parts.

I'll button things up in day or two.  I think it would be wise to loctite the big nut (I'm familiar with the various threads on that topic).  Anything else I should inspect while I'm still in there?

The pic below shows the masstive billet basket holding tool and the three screws to clamp the plates.

BK

(http://i54.tinypic.com/6syyqx.jpg)

I had mine replaced at about the same mileage as yours - it slipped and we saw some burn marks on some of the bare steel discs. I have kept it properly adjusted since and haven't had any issues.

My dealer didn't soak the new discs. Maybe they should have - I don't know.
If it doesn't specify so in the manual - probably not required - gets wet fast anyway.

The springs should be within spec (listed in the shop manual). If yours are not - replace.
Just recently while engine being apart, my springs were checked and still like new. (at 32,000 miles)

I was advised to run smoothly, careful take offs and with a moderate throttle for a few days.

Good work  [thumbsup]

wet clutch , yes soak plates 10 mins or so is adequate

be careful when replacing the stack, they all go in a specific order and may or may not have a spacer plate

+1

Make sure you separate the stack so the surface of all the plates get oiled.

Thanks, guys.  dp, that's just spooky....I was going to dunk the assembled stack in oil....it's like you read my mind or anticipated my sneaky shortcut....no big deal to pull the plates out and do it properly.

BTW, I'm also replacing the "gear ratchet" as Ducati calls it, aka shift detent arm, with the Factory Pro part.  Some of the wording on the Ducati torque specs is ambiguous at best.  My best guess is that this M8 special bolt is the "Gear Stopper Screw M8x1.25" with a spec of 18Nm with Lock 2.  Sound reasonable?

BK

(http://i53.tinypic.com/2qw20bl.jpg)

I do read minds.  :P The reason for separating the plates is the same as why you have to do it in the first place. Oil just won't get to all the surfaces fast enough to prevent cooking the thing with the plates compressed together.

Yes

OK BK, what's this Factory Pro part and why is it better than OEM? There was a thread once where that spring broke and chewed up the inside of a guy's S2R800 motor, so I assume you'll be replacing that as well? And the hub nut? You're gonna peel the rest of that old gasket maker off the mating surface as well right :P

I don't suppose you would be willing to rent that tool out to a DMF member if he needed it would you. I heard they cost quite a bit.

Can't say if the Factory Pro part is better or not - I'll need to try it.  It's part of a broader effort to get my M695 to shift better, and I figured I would throw it on while the clutch was out.  It's a micro-bearing vs. the ducati bushing, and a different spring that appears to be thicker/stronger/stiffer.

Oh yeah, I'll get everything cleaned up and properly torqued.  OCD is my middle name.

I'd be happy loan out the clutch tools in the future, although the basket holder does look pretty cool hanging there on my tool rack.

BK

(http://i39.tinypic.com/kd5u1y.jpg)

You might want to take the alternator side off and adjust the shifter mechanism as well. It's common that they are not right on from the factory. I'd like to do the same thing to smooth the clunky shifts but I assume some clunk is the nature of the brute.

Yeah, I was hoping to avoid that, but I bought the alternator side puller to be ready for it.  Part of what motivated this whole exercise was a single incident of the transmission sticking in gear after a feeble downshift a few months ago.  I was eventually able to free it by rolling the throttle on/off at speed and applying some upward pressure to the shifter (clutchless shift).  Otherwise the shifter was rock solid!

Peering through the hollow fork selector drum from the clutch side to the alternator side, I can see the gear selector fork has what looks like a rough/damaged area.  That could be part of the problem.

Is the special drum locating tool (88713.1091) really necessary to setup the selector fork?

BK

I wish I knew! I'm wondering if the primary gear holding tool 88713.2423 is really necessary to tighten the clutch hub nut! Or is that what your aluminum basket holding tool 88713.2556 is for? Seems to be some redundancy with reagrd to all these special tools.

If you're going to pull the alternator side cover, you may want to look into getting your flywheel machined. It's on my "short list" of mods to do.

Already done!

What's the skinny on the ca-cycleworks gaskets?  Looks like a good thing, but does the extra thickness affect the sealing of the little greeen o-ring (clutch side) or the sensor air gap (alternator side)?

BK

The gasket would definitely affect the air gap of the timing sensor. You'd have to remove the same thickness from the shim under the sensor. I don't know if it's even possible.

The sensor shims come in I think three thicknesses - .6mm, .8mm, and 1mm. There's always a flat sheet o' glass and some 400 grit wet/dry as well. I have some of those CA Cycleworks fiber gaskets and they're really not that thick. By the time you torque all the cover bolts down the difference shouldn't be that great. However the sensors are very sensitive to the air gap. I've not heard Chris comment on that.

Right...

but if you have the thinnest shim installed from the factory and the gasket is thicker than that, what then?

hmmm? ;D Have the cover milled?

Otherwise the gasket will work fine.

The gaskets are .015" thick. There almost always is a thin and a thick shim behind the sensor. The thin one is also .015" thick. Take it out when reinstalling. On the clutch side, haven't heard of or seen any affects with having the cover be .015" farther outboard.

Thanks!
Chris
:)

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TO THE RESCUE!!!!

Another reason this place kicks lots of ass.  [beer]

I'm still undecided on the gaskets.  Love the gasket idea, but I also have a new tube of sealer on the bench.  I don't need to decide until my shifter parts come in from Italy....

My M695 has what appears to be a single 1mm shim installed.  As mentioned, Ducati offers 0.6, 0.8 and 1mm shims.  With the info from Chris I could swap in the 0.6mm shim with his gasket and be good (1mm - 0.6mm = 0.4mm = 0.0157").  Probably best to take the actual measurement to verify the sensor gap.

BK

Yeah... double check that. When I was first researching this, the thin gasket was stuck to the sensor and I had to pry it off with a razor blade. I made the gaskets because I was brought up working on Japanese bikes... even those from the 70s and 80s would seal up without too much goo. So my "goo sense" was built using them... Ducatis just don't seal up as well, so I always have to take them back apart, scrape all the goo off, and try it again with more goo. Sometimes twice. :P With the paper, it works. No goo required. AND the paper gaskets are often reusable and still with no goo required.

In case you didn't get it, I really don't like scraping goo from engines and covers.

A lot.

:D Chris

Are there any tricks to maximize the likelyhood of paper gasket re-use?

BK

from my jap bike experience, high temp bearing grease on the paper gaskets yields a good success rate of reuse

+1 ... though I never bother to do the best practice with my own bikes. They've done pretty well going on dry. :) Pongo was a at least 18 months and the alternator cover came off without tearing.

;D Chris

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Get some Hylomar.